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One intriguing question is along the opposite lines: what happens to people who do have a college degree, but who find themselves chronically under-employed? There are two sub-categories. One is the prototypical philosophy major, who ends up slinging coffee at Starbucks. The other is the engineer, with say a BSE in Electrical Engineering, who either never launches in engineering employment, or gets laid off and never gets rehired in engineering.
Towards the latter point, there is a broad history, not in the US but in Eastern Europe or in various countries with unstable governments. In the 70s or 80s, a person might have been a successful degreed engineer in the say the USSR... and when it collapsed, so did the job, and the basis of employment. The 90s were famously a decade of despair, with a plunge in longevity. More recently, this might be happening say in Venezuela or in the Middle East. What happens to people thus-affected?
Interesting point. I guess my observation is that someone with a degree who is laid off is likely to find a new job sooner than a person without a degree. The person with the degree will be perceived as being more versatile and qualified to do more things.
A degree may not save you from periods of unemployment. I just bet some periods of unemployment are shorter ones than for someone without similar education.
One intriguing question is along the opposite lines: what happens to people who do have a college degree, but who find themselves chronically under-employed? There are two sub-categories. One is the prototypical philosophy major, who ends up slinging coffee at Starbucks. The other is the engineer, with say a BSE in Electrical Engineering, who either never launches in engineering employment, or gets laid off and never gets rehired in engineering.
Towards the latter point, there is a broad history, not in the US but in Eastern Europe or in various countries with unstable governments. In the 70s or 80s, a person might have been a successful degreed engineer in the say the USSR... and when it collapsed, so did the job, and the basis of employment. The 90s were famously a decade of despair, with a plunge in longevity. More recently, this might be happening say in Venezuela or in the Middle East. What happens to people thus-affected?
I agree that people in this position are at more risk of "deaths of despair" than someone who decided not to go to college and chose to work in a blue collar job. Maybe newer data will prove this. I know many people who were laid off in the past few years. Have you met an experienced engineer who is resigned to being a school bus driver while trying to get hired back in his field? Or young men with masters degrees in STEM fields that are still living at home, one working a menial online job and the other a part time Walmart stocker?
These are people I know. They had expectations. They are in debt with student loans. Studying them may not support a narrative that everyone should go to college, but I do believe they are more at risk.
...Have you met an experienced engineer who is resigned to being a school bus driver while trying to get hired back in his field? Or young men with masters degrees in STEM fields that are still living at home, one working a menial online job and the other a part time Walmart stocker?
These are people I know. They had expectations. They are in debt with student loans. Studying them may not support a narrative that everyone should go to college, but I do believe they are more at risk.
Fortunately in America, the under-employment of young engineers is unusual. I would imagine that it's a far greater problem in middle-income countries, such as China, where there's a surfeit of smart, well-educated young people, who struggle with limited employment prospects. Perhaps, depending on where the economy goes, the same will happen here in the US.
More common, I think, is middle-aged people who lose their cushy jobs, and hence their sense of purpose. If they saved for the proverbial rainy-day, then maybe their finances remain alright. But they are still likely to get listless and depressed... falling into despair. If you're 25, can't get a job and move into mom's basement, that is wrenching and embarrassing, but life goes on. If that happens to you at age 55, mom has long ago passed away, the house with the basement has been sold, and there's no safety-net to catch one's fall. That, one supposes, is more grievous despair.
The common theme, is the tying of our mental vitality and our capacity for optimism, to our career prospects. It probably has more to do with career than education... the poorly educated but well-employed, would do better, than the well-educated, whose career collapses. I don't necessarily think that the answer is larger financial support programs. Instead, the broader answer is a cultural shift, where we don't tie our sense of self so much, with our jobs. Then, unemployment or underemployment wouldn't result so keenly in a sense of despair.
Last edited by ohio_peasant; 10-20-2023 at 12:42 PM..
U.S. Rate of Suicide by Firearm Reaches Record Level
Article in today's NY Times that suicides have increased from 2019 levels. Facts about suicides, here, one every 11 minutes.
This link WILL get you past the paywall and into the article. It's my 10th and last gift link for NOV, I'll get ten more next month.
Deaths are not evenly distributed by demographics, as per these excerpts:
Quote:
The rate of suicides involving guns in the United States has reached the highest level since officials began tracking it more than 50 years ago, according to a new report from the Centers for Disease Controland Prevention.
The rate increased by more than 10% in 2022 compared with 2019, and in some racial and ethnic groups, the rise was significantly steeper, especially among Native Americans. Overall, about 27,000 of 50,000 suicides were carried out by gun in 2022.
Federal researchers involved in the analysis suggested that the coronavirus pandemic might have exacerbated many of the known risk factors for suicide generally, which include social isolation, strained relationships, and drug and alcohol disorders. At the same time, outside experts noted, the increased rates also correlated with another trend seen during the acute phase of the pandemic: rising gun sales.
Suicide rates have increased across all racial and ethnic groups since 2019, but the degree of change differed drastically. American Indian and Alaska Native people, for example, saw the sharpest spike: a 66% increase in the rate of firearm suicides from 2019 to 2022 (to 10.6 from 6.4 per 100,000). The rate among Black people increased by 42% (to 5.3 from 3.8), and among Hispanic and Latino people by 28% (to 3.3 from 2.5). Asian and Pacific Island people saw firearm suicide rates increase by about 10% (to 1.9 from 1.7).
White people experienced the smallest bump — a 9% increase since 2019 — but maintained the highest overall rate of firearm suicides (11.1 per 100,000 in 2022).
Much more in the article. The data isn't delineated by state or by education level.
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I'm from northeast TN. This area has had a drug problem for many years, but it's gotten especially bad in the last five years or so. The drug issues used to be behind closed doors - today, it's common to see people heavily intoxicated in public at all hours of the day.
Law enforcement here is extremely heavy-handed and aggressive on these issues. I live in Sullivan County, Tennessee. Our jail has about 1,000 inmates on any given day, in a county of about 160,000 residents. Knox County, Tennessee has fewer inmates, and about three times the population.
A "law and order" approach doesn't seem to work - in fact, it might be making the situation worse.
There are very few opportunities here, especially for younger people. Sure, wages at the very bottom end have risen, but so has everything else. It's easy to turn to drugs when you grow up in an environment of hopelessness, and where there are already lots of drug issues.
I'm from northeast TN. This area has had a drug problem for many years, but it's gotten especially bad in the last five years or so. The drug issues used to be behind closed doors - today, it's common to see people heavily intoxicated in public at all hours of the day.
Law enforcement here is extremely heavy-handed and aggressive on these issues. I live in Sullivan County, Tennessee. Our jail has about 1,000 inmates on any given day, in a county of about 160,000 residents. Knox County, Tennessee has fewer inmates, and about three times the population.
A "law and order" approach doesn't seem to work - in fact, it might be making the situation worse.
There are very few opportunities here, especially for younger people. Sure, wages at the very bottom end have risen, but so has everything else. It's easy to turn to drugs when you grow up in an environment of hopelessness, and where there are already lots of drug issues.
Sadly, many drug users will choose to continue using even when they know an arrest will result in jail or prison time. Such is the power of addiction.
Drug treatment works for some, but not for others.
Sadly, many drug users will choose to continue using even when they know an arrest will result in jail or prison time. Such is the power of addiction.
Drug treatment works for some, but not for others.
Even more sadly, some homeless addicts would either overtly or covertly prefer prison to sleeping under a picnic table. Jail is not fun but it does mean three hots and a cot, which if you can't obtain them otherwise might be appealing,
I kind of hate to post that, but, it is what it is.
Even more sadly, some homeless addicts would either overtly or covertly prefer prison to sleeping under a picnic table. Jail is not fun but it does mean three hots and a cot, which if you can't obtain them otherwise might be appealing,
I kind of hate to post that, but, it is what it is.
In my work as an attorney, I can absolutely testify to this. Several drug users I met actually use jail to sort of restore their health, temporarily stop using drugs, and have a place to spend the cold winter months. The tragedy of it is they are not inherently bad people. None of the ones I know used violence against others. I think if they could get off drugs they would. They were productive in their past lives and would like to be productive people again.
Sadly, many drug users will choose to continue using even when they know an arrest will result in jail or prison time. Such is the power of addiction.
Drug treatment works for some, but not for others.
I grew up with two twin sisters who were absolutely beautiful and both were extremely intelligent.
Both got into drugs. The first one died seven or eight years ago after checking herself out of a detox facility AMA and died on the way home. The second one was in a car wreck about a decade ago with someone who was DUI, and ended up having a partial leg amputation.
She did eventually get clean, but got with an addict boyfriend last year. He ended up shooting her in the head after she broke up with him, then he killed another man for a getaway car.
I've always wondered how different their lives would have been had they not grown up in drug-addicted small town Tennessee.
If you asked me in casual conversation, I wouldn't have pinned it specifically on a college degree, but I have indeed noticed when reading individual stories that the victims almost always seem to be people without much education, and without anything in the way of "intellectual" interests. It's not just that they may lack the formal education to secure a good job - they seem to never have developed the habits of analytical common sense and intellectual curiosity.
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U.S. Rate of Suicide by Firearm Reaches Record Level
