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Old 09-17-2009, 07:15 AM
 
5,252 posts, read 4,674,563 times
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Well, now the question of, who rules the state? The real power in America,and most industrialized nations, resides in the corporate offices of those nations largest business combines.

Laws are necessary to insure the end result. Power is never subjugated to majority rule, in fact, it is the law of minority rule that supports most governments. Arguing the finer points of the decor of the theatre doesn't create a reality, it's still theatre.

The fact of anger among the citizenery has little bearing on the political process, the absolute rule is to create the illusion of inclusion, pass laws, hold hearings, build infrastructure, all in the name of common good. When a person reaches the point of suspicion in regard to questioning the governments validity, they've only begun to acknowledge the fact that government is about control, not fairness.
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Old 09-17-2009, 07:23 AM
 
3,562 posts, read 5,225,158 times
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It would be less theater if when one says that there have been usurpations and abuses that they could prove it.


Edited for: and we aren't going to get very far if someone takes Kant and flips the wording which would be using someone for their own ends.

Last edited by Pandamonium; 09-17-2009 at 08:39 AM..
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:38 AM
 
768 posts, read 1,087,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
That really is very nice.

Yet, it is Kant who is in favor of a social contract and denies the right to a revolution or rebellion. Instead, he states this:

The Science of Right, by Immanuel Kant (part3)


The Science of Right, by Immanuel Kant (part15)

Nor would Kant have stated that your morality was pure.

As beautifully as you have written, this does not demonstrate that the 10th amendment was violated.
You misunderstand the context of my allusion to Kant. I was speaking particularly of his categorical imperative that we should, "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."

Now as to the tenth amendment; here it is:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people"



Just as one example, where does it state that the Federal Government has the power to take our tax dollars and bail out Wall Street?
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:40 AM
 
768 posts, read 1,087,909 times
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The metaphysically undeniable fact is that of self ownership. All other ownership may be in question (houses, cars, stereo equipment) but self ownership cannot be questioned. It is a metaphysical reality. Therefore each person must be in control of their own lives and morality. But to have morality, the "moral muscle" must be exercised. Muscles that are not exercised atrophy and become useless. The same goes for our morality, we must exercise it or else we will ultimately become enslaved to a higher power whether that be the state or organized religion. But how can we exercise and build our moral character without choice? Laws prohibit choice. Laws are nothing but a powerful ruling class imposing their morality on the masses. As this continues, we lose our ability to make our own choices and determine right and wrong for ourselves. The one who creates his own morality is the morally superior person. The rest are just part of the herd.

Now I have gotten comments that I should leave this country if I don't like it. No I choose to stay because no matter where I reside on this globe, I am an individual sovereign. People say you must follow the laws of the nation in which you reside, but all nations are part of one planet. Who decides the boundaries of a nation and by what means have those boundaries been established? The boundaries are decided by governments and they are acquired by forceful conquest. Therefore they were established and acquired by immoral means. All that anyone can do is be responsible for themselves and their families and live peaceably with your neighbor. You don't need endless laws to do that.

Patriotism is no different than religion. In fact it is a pseudo religion. Instead of having the church determine your morality, the state does. And in the process we are taught the superiority of our nation over all the others. Again, we all inhabit the same globe, just different hemispheres. You can love your country without thinking it is better than another.
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:40 AM
 
3,562 posts, read 5,225,158 times
Reputation: 1861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Consent Withdrawn View Post
You misunderstand the context of my allusion to Kant. I was speaking particularly of his categorical imperative that we should, "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."

Now as to the tenth amendment; here it is:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people"



Just as one example, where does it state that the Federal Government has the power to take our tax dollars and bail out Wall Street?
This is the part where you tell me.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:00 AM
 
768 posts, read 1,087,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
This is the part where you tell me.

It doesn't
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:01 AM
 
3,562 posts, read 5,225,158 times
Reputation: 1861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Consent Withdrawn View Post
The metaphysically undeniable fact is that of self ownership. All other ownership may be in question (houses, cars, stereo equipment) but self ownership cannot be questioned. It is a metaphysical reality. Therefore each person must be in control of their own lives and morality. But to have morality, the "moral muscle" must be exercised. Muscles that are not exercised atrophy and become useless. The same goes for our morality, we must exercise it or else we will ultimately become enslaved to a higher power whether that be the state or organized religion. But how can we exercise and build our moral character without choice? Laws prohibit choice. Laws are nothing but a powerful ruling class imposing their morality on the masses. As this continues, we lose our ability to make our own choices and determine right and wrong for ourselves. The one who creates his own morality is the morally superior person. The rest are just part of the herd.

Now I have gotten comments that I should leave this country if I don't like it. No I choose to stay because no matter where I reside on this globe, I am an individual sovereign. People say you must follow the laws of the nation in which you reside, but all nations are part of one planet. Who decides the boundaries of a nation and by what means have those boundaries been established? The boundaries are decided by governments and they are acquired by forceful conquest. Therefore they were established and acquired by immoral means. All that anyone can do is be responsible for themselves and their families and live peaceably with your neighbor. You don't need endless laws to do that.

Patriotism is no different than religion. In fact it is a pseudo religion. Instead of having the church determine your morality, the state does. And in the process we are taught the superiority of our nation over all the others. Again, we all inhabit the same globe, just different hemispheres. You can love your country without thinking it is better than another.

I think that your getting comments to leave not out of patriotism, but because that is the option presented in the social contract.


You are trying to argue as a sovereign citizen and you cannot do that and still claim we the people.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Consent Withdrawn View Post
Just as one example, where does it state that the Federal Government has the power to take our tax dollars and bail out Wall Street?
They are not taking our tax dollars for that purpose., which is why we consented to it. They will take the tax dollars from some future generation, with the consent of that generation, under whatever form of duress they can devise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Consent Withdrawn View Post
But to have morality, the "moral muscle" must be exercised. Muscles that are not exercised atrophy and become useless. .
That is a colorful metaphor, but muscles act according to the physical laws of the universe, and morality does not. So it cannot be presumed that both will respond in the same way to any given stimulus.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:12 AM
 
3,562 posts, read 5,225,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Consent Withdrawn View Post
It doesn't

Then prove it.


Show me where congress over reached.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:22 AM
 
3,562 posts, read 5,225,158 times
Reputation: 1861
I swear that I am not trying to be crappy but I will give you a starting point:

It is called The Emergency Stabilization Act of 2008.
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