Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Mysticaltyger has it right. Yesterday's luxuries are today's necessities. Then add usurious college loan interest to exorbitant loans and a recent graduate is pretty much screwed into living very frugally for about a decade. This is a great reward for the time, effort and money for a college degree.
IMHO
The government should hire graduates that cannot find other employment. There are lots of things that need doing that cannot be done at a profit.
Student loans should be repaid with a surcharge on the student's income tax for the rest of their working life. The excess should be used to fund the next generation's education. Private sector banks are not needed.
Thanks for the reps on my previous post I agree with your first statement. However, we have to admit that a lot of people are not strategic about college and are not focused. And choose majors that will not do much for their earning power (I did that myself). But that said, there is absolutely no question college is simply becoming too expensive for people to afford it.
As far as the government hiring graduates. That sounds nuts to me. It may sound good in theory in sum. But in practice, it will mean a lot of money is wasted. And we can't afford that. The government is running up huge debts as it is, which are only going to get worse because of SS & Medicare costs.
I do think a lot of the solution is in realistic expectations. Not blowing money on entertainment and eating out. Living at home with parents or roommates. And, the big one for me.....not having kids out of wedlock.
Things are tougher now. But a lot of people have lost touch with the basics of life (i.e. using birth control, getting married and then having kids-in that order).
I am starting to get annoyed when people make statements such as yours, especially about computers. How the heck are you supposed to apply for jobs if you don't have a computer????? It's next to impossible nowadays because all the apps are online. Computers are necessities in the same way cars are necessities. Since most places don't have good mass transit, you are forced into buying a car. Since most jobs require a computer to apply, you are forced into buying a computer. These items are not luxuries for most people. They are necessities. In many respects it's the same thing with cell phones. Instant communication is the way business is done now, like it or not. That means having a cell phone.
Lazy, lazy, lazy. You don't need a computer to apply for a job. You don't need a car to get a job in a city. You don't need a cell phone to get a job. Those are lazy excuses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW
... Then add usurious college loan interest to exorbitant loans and a recent graduate is pretty much screwed into living very frugally for about a decade. This is a great reward for the time, effort and money for a college degree.
People used to live frugally all the time. Why does a college grad need a reward for going to college? The fastest way to grow up is to take responsibility, no matter how frugal one has to be for however long it takes to get their feet under them in a career.
I am starting to get annoyed when people make statements such as yours, especially about computers. How the heck are you supposed to apply for jobs if you don't have a computer????? It's next to impossible nowadays because all the apps are online. Computers are necessities in the same way cars are necessities. Since most places don't have good mass transit, you are forced into buying a car. Since most jobs require a computer to apply, you are forced into buying a computer. These items are not luxuries for most people. They are necessities. In many respects it's the same thing with cell phones. Instant communication is the way business is done now, like it or not. That means having a cell phone.
Now I agree, ipods and playstations are not necessities. And a lot of people are blowing more on cell phone service than they need to. But otherwise, this kind of thinking is seriously outdated.
And as far as cracking books in the library goes??? Gues what? The library of tomorrow is already here.....on the computer. More and more books are being published in digital format. I can see the day when books will become obsolete. And by the way, I work in a library. I see this happening before my very eyes.
.................................................. .................................................
Its pretty simple really. You use one of the computers made available to you at college. That way you don't need to purchase your own and you certainly won't need to pay an exorbitant price for high speed internet that way either.
Young people not going to college should go to their public library or an internet cafe. They can use a computer there for no cost or a very low cost. I have my own computer, but frequently use the one at the public library because I don't have a high speed internet connection in my home. I'm too cheap to pay for one even with a six figure income.
Mass transit is acceptable in the Salt Lake City area. Not great. I had college roomates even in the 1970's who got by quite adequately taking a bus to college everyday. Your point about transportation is well taken though. Its probably more difficult in some other areas.
I really see young people as only partially to blame for what's occurred. I think rents, college tuition, and insurance are way too high. We got a deal thirty years ago going to college (tuition was about $650 a year at the public university I attended). People who can't see that its unrealistic for young people today to spend almost $6000 a year to attend that same university are just refusing not to see reality. I propose we lean on public colleges to hold down tuition. Perhaps, if they don't do it, they shouldn't be eligible for federal financial assistance programs.
Its pretty simple really. You use one of the computers made available to you at college. That way you don't need to purchase your own and you certainly won't need to pay an exorbitant price for high speed internet that way either.
Young people not going to college should go to their public library or an internet cafe. They can use a computer there for no cost or a very low cost. I have my own computer, but frequently use the one at the public library because I don't have a high speed internet connection in my home. I'm too cheap to pay for one even with a six figure income.
Mass transit is acceptable in the Salt Lake City area. Not great. I had college roomates even in the 1970's who got by quite adequately taking a bus to college everyday. Your point about transportation is well taken though. Its probably more difficult in some other areas.
I really see young people as only partially to blame for what's occurred. I think rents, college tuition, and insurance are way too high. We got a deal thirty years ago going to college (tuition was about $650 a year at the public university I attended). People who can't see that its unrealistic for young people today to spend almost $6000 a year to attend that same university are just refusing not to see reality. I propose we lean on public colleges to hold down tuition. Perhaps, if they don't do it, they shouldn't be eligible for federal financial assistance programs.
You had me right up to your last paragraph.
When you consider that a great deal of college students further their educations on the backs of their parents, live the 'I'm entitled' life and graduate with the attitude that the world owes them, it's difficult to support any sympathy for them.
I do, however, agree with leaning on state universities to hold down tuition.
I feel badly for the youth of today. Their parents have spent decades destroying the economy and will leave them a third world country weighed down with debt and no inheretance. Thirty years ago it was illegal to charge the interest rates credit cards are charging today. We had a middle class where mom could work or stay home because dad made a living wage. No it takes two jobs to afford Chinese crap at SLAVEMART. Forty Cents of every dollar is siphoned off by the rich and they are left to fight over the scraps.
Lazy, lazy, lazy. You don't need a computer to apply for a job. You don't need a car to get a job in a city. You don't need a cell phone to get a job. Those are lazy excuses.
People used to live frugally all the time. Why does a college grad need a reward for going to college? The fastest way to grow up is to take responsibility, no matter how frugal one has to be for however long it takes to get their feet under them in a career.
Seriously, I'm wondering what planet you live on???? Where, outside a few select cities in the US, is there decent mass transit? I live in a city of 900,000 people, and despite already lousy service, they are cutting back on service even more.
And quite frankly, how expensive is a basic cell phone plan anyway? People talk as if they're thousands of dollars or something!!! Lots of people have cell phones but drop their land lines.
And when you are applying for lots of jobs, you DO need a computer. Public libraries normally put time limits on computer use (it's 2 hours per day at my library) I see people who use the public computers at my library, many of them using the computers looking for jobs. Many of them, sadly, don't look like they're very employable.
I feel badly for the youth of today. Their parents have spent decades destroying the economy and will leave them a third world country weighed down with debt and no inheretance. Thirty years ago it was illegal to charge the interest rates credit cards are charging today. We had a middle class where mom could work or stay home because dad made a living wage. No it takes two jobs to afford Chinese crap at SLAVEMART. Forty Cents of every dollar is siphoned off by the rich and they are left to fight over the scraps.
Boompa, for once we agree, although not completely.
The middle class, to some extent, has really shot itself in the foot. It didn't have to go into ever more debt to buy ever larger gas guzzling SUVs and McMansions. It didn't have to divorce and have kids out of wedlock at unprecedented rates (also major financial hits).
But at the same time, this is the stuff that today's young people have inherited from their parents---Single parents. Divorced parents. And parents who give their kids whatever "stuff" they can in an attept to assuage their own guilt. Basically, emotional and financial instability. Not to mention college costs that have been far outpacing the general rate of inflation for the last 30 years. This is not a great way to start out in life.
I'm not saying there aren't a lot of slackers out there. But we agree that today's young people got gypped by their Boomer parents.
Now, excuses have an expiration date. You don't get to blame your parents for your failure's your whole life. But all these people on here saying it's ALL the young peoples' fault ...well it's just not true. And citing cell phone use as some kind of excess is just plain nutty. I'm surprised these folks aren't expecting today's young people to commute around town in horses and buggies!!!
Last edited by mysticaltyger; 02-19-2010 at 03:00 PM..
I am starting to get annoyed when people make statements such as yours, especially about computers. How the heck are you supposed to apply for jobs if you don't have a computer????? It's next to impossible nowadays because all the apps are online. Computers are necessities in the same way cars are necessities. Since most places don't have good mass transit, you are forced into buying a car. Since most jobs require a computer to apply, you are forced into buying a computer. These items are not luxuries for most people. They are necessities. In many respects it's the same thing with cell phones. Instant communication is the way business is done now, like it or not. That means having a cell phone.
Now I agree, ipods and playstations are not necessities. And a lot of people are blowing more on cell phone service than they need to. But otherwise, this kind of thinking is seriously outdated.
And as far as cracking books in the library goes??? Gues what? The library of tomorrow is already here.....on the computer. More and more books are being published in digital format. I can see the day when books will become obsolete. And by the way, I work in a library. I see this happening before my very eyes.
.................................................. .................................................
Its pretty simple really. You use one of the computers made available to you at college. That way you don't need to purchase your own and you certainly won't need to pay an exorbitant price for high speed internet that way either.
Young people not going to college should go to their public library or an internet cafe. They can use a computer there for no cost or a very low cost. I have my own computer, but frequently use the one at the public library because I don't have a high speed internet connection in my home. I'm too cheap to pay for one even with a six figure income.
Mass transit is acceptable in the Salt Lake City area. Not great. I had college roomates even in the 1970's who got by quite adequately taking a bus to college everyday. Your point about transportation is well taken though. Its probably more difficult in some other areas.
I really see young people as only partially to blame for what's occurred. I think rents, college tuition, and insurance are way too high. We got a deal thirty years ago going to college (tuition was about $650 a year at the public university I attended). People who can't see that its unrealistic for young people today to spend almost $6000 a year to attend that same university are just refusing not to see reality. I propose we lean on public colleges to hold down tuition. Perhaps, if they don't do it, they shouldn't be eligible for federal financial assistance programs.
We don't agree on all points, but at least you see what I'm saying.
I think the underlying problem with college is that the service model for universities is outdated and expensive. The current way business is done desperately needs to change. And college faculties are notorious for blocking any and all cost control measures. For example, Bachelor's degrees in the UK are 3 years, not 4. A lot of these programs could be streamlined.
Even the liberal leaning authors of The Two Income Trap mention the issue of unsustainably high college costs in their book (and one of them is even a Harvard professor---quite an admission).
Simply pushing student loans or providing more aid at the Federal level merely disguises the underlying problem. The Federal government is in debt over it's eyeballs as it is.
As far as mass transit goes....I want you to think about SLC. Think about how much the area has sprawled out since the 1970s. I would love to do some research to see how frequently the buses ran there in the 1970s vs today. I know they have some light rail lines there....But lets face it, SLC, and many other metro areas have sprawled out a million miles in all directions, and employers are not concentrated in a single area, making it extremely difficult to have efficient, convenient, and cost effective mass transit systems.
As far as the public library goes. Many public libraries do not have good hours. The branch libraries in my area are only open from 2PM to 7PM on Mondays, and are not open Sundays (only the main lib is open Sunday). More cutbacks in library hours in my area are a virtual certainty.
In short, The society of earlier eras was more supportive of frugal, low consumption living (from transit systems to library hours to health insurance costs to college tuition costs) than today's is. And there is a limit to how much you can go against the grain.
And honestly, how expensive is high speed internet. $40 or $50 a month??? That's not what's killing people.
Insurance and college costs (and high rent) are the more likely culprits. Combine that with unrealistic expectations (sometimes stoked by the parents!!!), and I feel more than a little sympathy (as I know you do as well).
This all or nothing thinking has to go. These young people are going to be paying for the retirements of the Baby Boomers and will likely get nothing for themselves at the rate things are going. I think they deserve more respect than they're getting from some on this board.
Seriously, I'm wondering what planet you live on???? Where, outside a few select cities in the US, is there decent mass transit? I live in a city of 900,000 people, and despite already lousy service, they are cutting back on service even more.
And quite frankly, how expensive is a basic cell phone plan anyway? People talk as if they're thousands of dollars or something!!! Lots of people have cell phones but drop their land lines.
And when you are applying for lots of jobs, you DO need a computer. Public libraries normally put time limits on computer use (it's 2 hours per day at my library) I see people who use the public computers at my library, many of them using the computers looking for jobs. Many of them, sadly, don't look like they're very employable.
Thank you for your post! I couldn't have said it better, it annoys me as well how some people are still stuck in the 'stone age' of the electronics era. Yes, we get it, in the 90s even laptops and cell phones would cost a fortune for students and those making minimum wage and were out of reach for most. Nowadays, you can get stuff for pennies on the dollar used on e-bay or craigslist or even get stuff for free! I've gotten rid of a couple of laptops over the recent decade - donated them to my family members, but had I not had family that needed them I would have donated them for free to someone else in need. We also purchased a couple of laptops for really low price for our family on e-bay and were happy with them.
buying a laptop or a cell phone nowadays doesn't mean blowing tons of cash on the latest and greatest, going to best buy and spending 2K on the latest model.
When I went to college in the 90s I didn't have a computer, but still I was required to type my papers instead of hand-writing them. I used an old typing machine at first which I got to learn how to type when I first came to the US. but I got complaints from my professors as the quality of print was hard to read and guess what... I just had to go and buy a new electronic typewriter that would print its own pages to make do, a little investment in my future, all I could afford, couldn't afford a computer and a printer and didn't have much time hanging out at libraries. I was dirt poor, making minimum wage, working full time, supporting family while going to college full time. Later on, I went to a better college, took loans so that I could concentrate on my school instead of my minimum wage crappy job and at some point even bought a laptop with borrowed CC cash. Don't see how keeping up with modern times and investing into your future is a big deal.
My parents lived in a tiny dingy 1 bedroom apartment when my dad was in college. They had the bedroom, my bed was the couch. They had one old car and one blurry black and white tv. They lived in a strict budget. No going out to eat, no vacations, no partying, no living on credit until my dad got out of college and landed a better paying job.
If young people were willing to live the same way until they got their feet off the ground.....they could support themselves. Even in this economy.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I agree with your first statement. However, we have to admit that a lot of people are not strategic about college and are not focused. And choose majors that will not do much for their earning power (I did that myself). But that said, there is absolutely no question college is simply becoming too expensive for people to afford it.
