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Old 02-10-2010, 08:51 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,292 posts, read 26,676,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
For many, and possibly most Americans, their net wealth is negative. Market value of all assets and equity minus all debts.

The homeless beggar in Calcutta, who sleeps on a piece of cardboard, owns his cardboard, and has no debt. His net wealth is positive. Most Americans are poorer than he is. Except for the dream.
My total indebtedness - on all property, possessions and assets - is about $130,000. My gross worth is at least quadruple that, and it would be more had the stock market not taken a dump. In less than 10 years I will have no debt, my gross worth will become net worth, and will likely have doubled.

There's nothing wrong with "The American Dream" and it is still very much available to anybody who is willing to work at it.
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:01 PM
 
116 posts, read 83,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
My total indebtedness - on all property, possessions and assets - is about $130,000. My gross worth is at least quadruple that, and it would be more had the stock market not taken a dump. In less than 10 years I will have no debt, my gross worth will become net worth, and will likely have doubled.

There's nothing wrong with "The American Dream" and it is still very much available to anybody who is willing to work at it.
Congratulations, would you like a medal? Seriously, I'm not knocking your achievements (although I do wonder why you choose to tout them on an internet forum). However, a lot of people "work at it", but get nowhere. A lot of people are born disadvantaged from the word "go" and others are born blessed with all of the necessary attributes needed to succeed in today's America. A lot of it boils down to luck though, plain and simple. Most people work hard for their money, but many (often through no fault of their own) simply don't make it. Many go to school and make all the right choices, only to get shafted by something such as a major illness, which is often catastrophic in a country such as this, with "for profit" healthcare. See, that's the problem I have with the American Dream. It has become nothing but a means to control the population, by forcing them into debt, or forcing them into a life of corporate servitude, to which they cannot escape.

No thanks, I'd rather have simple living, any day. I don't need a big house, a big car (or any car). I don't need a big bank account and I don't need to tout my wealth and success to make myself look and feel superior to the minions who are too lazy or stupid to make it, just like I did.
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:38 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,292 posts, read 26,676,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revol100 View Post
Congratulations, would you like a medal? Seriously, I'm not knocking your achievements (although I do wonder why you choose to tout them on an internet forum). However, a lot of people "work at it", but get nowhere. A lot of people are born disadvantaged from the word "go" and others are born blessed with all of the necessary attributes needed to succeed in today's America. A lot of it boils down to luck though, plain and simple. Most people work hard for their money, but many (often through no fault of their own) simply don't make it. Many go to school and make all the right choices, only to get shafted by something such as a major illness, which is often catastrophic in a country such as this, with "for profit" healthcare. See, that's the problem I have with the American Dream. It has become nothing but a means to control the population, by forcing them into debt, or forcing them into a life of corporate servitude, to which they cannot escape.

No thanks, I'd rather have simple living, any day. I don't need a big house, a big car (or any car). I don't need a big bank account and I don't need to tout my wealth and success to make myself look and feel superior to the minions who are too lazy or stupid to make it, just like I did.
Nice passive-aggressive diatribe in that last paragraph.

How is the American Dream forcing people into debt?

Nobody is being forced (for instance) to buy a new car and put it on payments for 6 years. I drive a 13-year old heap with 350,000 miles on it. I bought it 7 years ago for $250. It gets me where I need to go. That is MY American Dream.

Every house my wife & I have bought over the past 26 years has been in need of MAJOR work - work that we have done, while living in the houses. We've done the work, sold the houses for a profit, and done so while raising our children. That is OUR American dream.

Other people choose to never own a house, but to have the freedom of not being tied down to home ownership. That is their choice. In fact, I'm a firm believer that not everyone SHOULD own their own house.


The bottom line is that there is NOTHING my wife & I have done that could not be done by every able-bodied, and able-minded, American.
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:48 PM
 
116 posts, read 83,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Nice passive-aggressive diatribe in that last paragraph.

How is the American Dream forcing people into debt?

Nobody is being forced (for instance) to buy a new car and put it on payments for 6 years. I drive a 13-year old heap with 350,000 miles on it. I bought it 7 years ago for $250. It gets me where I need to go. That is MY American Dream.

Every house my wife & I have bought over the past 26 years has been in need of MAJOR work - work that we have done, while living in the houses. We've done the work, sold the houses for a profit, and done so while raising our children. That is OUR American dream.

Other people choose to never own a house, but to have the freedom of not being tied down to home ownership. That is their choice. In fact, I'm a firm believer that not everyone SHOULD own their own house.


The bottom line is that there is NOTHING my wife & I have done that could not be done by every able-bodied, and able-minded, American.
Like I said, I'm not knocking you for it. Congratulations (or something). No one should take any of that away from you, but don't sit back and scoff at others who are less fortunate. You are successful as a result of 1) hard work and 2) luck. Just be appreciative of that, then you won't go far wrong. I'm not here to take away your version of the American Dream, but I am here to debate the very essence of it, on a wider scale.

p.s. since you've been successful yourself, maybe people in your position should consider becoming "mentors" to those who weren't blessed with your attributes? Now that would be a very positive thing for you to do
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:55 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,292 posts, read 26,676,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revol100 View Post
Like I said, I'm not knocking you for it. Congratulations (or something). No one should take any of that away from you, but don't sit back and scoff at others who are less fortunate. You are successful as a result of 1) hard work and 2) luck. Just be appreciative of that, then you won't go far wrong. I'm not here to take away your version of the American Dream, but I am here to debate the very essence of it, on a wider scale.

p.s. since you've been successful yourself, maybe people in your position should consider becoming "mentors" to those who weren't blessed with your attributes? Now that would be a very positive thing for you to do
Actually I have been mentoring a college student - part of this college's degree program - for the past 3 years. He's now about to graduate, has his first job secured, and he & his wife are looking at buying their first house.

So yes, it actually has been very rewarding being in the mentoring program. I wish more colleges required that of their students. It would help those students avoid a lot of typical pitfalls.
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:57 PM
 
116 posts, read 83,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Actually I have been mentoring a college student - part of this college's degree program - for the past 3 years. He's now about to graduate, has his first job secured, and he & his wife are looking at buying their first house.

So yes, it actually has been very rewarding being in the mentoring program. I wish more colleges required that of their students. It would help those students avoid a lot of typical pitfalls.
I can't knock you for that, keep it up
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Old 02-10-2010, 09:05 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,292 posts, read 26,676,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revol100 View Post
I can't knock you for that, keep it up
Thanks. Seriously, I fully intend to. My other "mentee" is a college freshman this year, and I'll pick up at least one more student next year. I've done everything from help the guy fix his car, to in-depth professional discussions, to talk about typical pitfalls of home ownership.

College is a tough time, and the first few years out of college can be even tougher. Beyond the professional degree-field mentoring, practical life-skills mentoring can be extremely helpful. Actually, I think it's becoming more important all the time, because often it's the "everyday stuff" that trips up young professionals.

I am a HUGE believer in a young couple buying a small fixer-upper home (provided it's structurally sound) as their first house. Work their butts off on value-added projects, grow to love the house because of their hard work, and notice how it becomes "their home." In addition, by the age of 30, they should be able to have a house that is worth at least double what they owe on it.
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Old 02-11-2010, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,778,277 times
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The alternative, if you value your personal freedom, is to "never own anything that won't fit in a seabag" or "never own anything that need to be fed or painted" and avoid time clocks like the plague.

As I look back on my life I am beginning to think these ideas are not so bad.
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Old 02-11-2010, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,968,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post

There's nothing wrong with "The American Dream" and it is still very much available to anybody who is willing to work at it.
You did say "anybody", didn't you? Good choice of words, to reflect the twisted egotistic philosophy of one who has grabbed about a half-million from the aggregate American wealth. In Stalin's time, any diligent person could have risenn through the ranks of the party, and a place on the Politburo was available to "anybody who was willing to work at it".

MY American dream is a dream in which well-being and happiness is available to "everybody". Not just "anybody" cunning and cutthroat enough to grab it.
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:03 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,292 posts, read 26,676,262 times
Reputation: 3925
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You did say "anybody", didn't you? Good choice of words, to reflect the twisted egotistic philosophy of one who has grabbed about a half-million from the aggregate American wealth. In Stalin's time, any diligent person could have risenn through the ranks of the party, and a place on the Politburo was available to "anybody who was willing to work at it".

MY American dream is a dream in which well-being and happiness is available to "everybody".
Wow. Your meds are WAY off this morning, aren't they?
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