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Old 01-25-2010, 06:15 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,213,174 times
Reputation: 3632

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I hear so many people promoting causes and pushing for change in our political and economic system. The people that are trying to use force on law abiding individuals; such as those pushing for bans on gays etc., I tend to ignore.

I do notice that a lot of well meaning people do get energetic about the latest populist cause such as the recent Supreme Court ruling regarding corporate campaign donations. The problem I see with most people who push these causes is they use them as a platform for their own personal agendas regarding social and economic policies. Instead of promoting a radical new direction, most people tend to just support change that benefits their side, or helps their side win.

I call these people “Tire Patchers”, by that I mean they are doing nothing more than putting a patch on a tire to keep it from popping. The problem is you can only patch so much before the tire blows. This is not a recipe for real positive radical change.

What is needed is a real alternative for people who know that the Dems and Reps are basically playing a game and using us, they are both authoritarian rulers and nothing more. Without an alternative most people plug their nose as support the side that says the most things they agree with. Third Parties like the Libertarian Party and Greens aren’t really going to do it either, they are way to dogmatic and preachy to ever succeed.

What is needed is a coalition of movements around three huge radical changes that will take away the need for millions of the tire patches. We need to bring about an even playing field first and foremost; we need to resist the urge to social engineer.

The three issues I feel that need to be linked as one are as follows.

Corporate Charter Reform. We need to go back to the days when corporations did not have “personhood” and the owners could be held liable for wrong doing.

Tax reform. People should not be taxed on productivity, on things they create or taxed for living. We need to tax land and those who benefit from natural resources.

Monetary Reform. A debt based fractional reserve system ruled by elitist bankers and compliant politicians is not a good system for any of us.

These three changes would make most of the current left/right debates obsolete. I would be happy to provide resources for these individual ideas. Combining them into a movement would be real change.

Thoughts? (Constructive please, not nitpicky mental master bat**** type comments)
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Old 01-25-2010, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic east coast
7,127 posts, read 12,667,756 times
Reputation: 16132
Seems to me your points would do well to benefit many more people than the current way of governing and doing business. I have a strong suspicion, though, that the corporations (and their lobbying and special interest groups and campaign donors) would not allow these--or any other progressive changes to take place. What would the benefit be to them? Look how health care changes were treated in DC--why would any other changes that benefit the common man be any easier to put into effect?

There needs to be a sea-change in the politics and mind-set of today to be more geared toward humanism and less geared toward capitalism. People more important than capital? Now that's a radical thought, eh??
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Old 01-25-2010, 07:14 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,288 posts, read 87,420,711 times
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change is not always progress.
stop the spending. only spend what you have.
pay for stuff instead of sign for stuff.
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Old 01-25-2010, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
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All three of the OP proposals are fundamentally economic, and none of them address the moral bankruptcy which is the real downfall of our nation. Merely obstructing the greedy will only make them dig their heels in deeper.
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Old 01-25-2010, 08:23 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,213,174 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleDolphin View Post
Seems to me your points would do well to benefit many more people than the current way of governing and doing business. I have a strong suspicion, though, that the corporations (and their lobbying and special interest groups and campaign donors) would not allow these--or any other progressive changes to take place. What would the benefit be to them? Look how health care changes were treated in DC--why would any other changes that benefit the common man be any easier to put into effect?

There needs to be a sea-change in the politics and mind-set of today to be more geared toward humanism and less geared toward capitalism. People more important than capital? Now that's a radical thought, eh??
Good start.Corporations and government would hate it. They are really one in the same, that is what my proposals would do away with. They have us convinced they are adversaries, they really aren’t.

Since changes like these are beyond just getting congress to tinker with a few regulations, these would be more direct with constitutional amendments.

I agree we need to promote more humanism but true capitalism is not the enemy of that. We have almost a fascist, crony capitalist system. These reforms would level they playing field and create true capitalism ruled by right and wrong, not lobbyists and politicians.
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Old 01-25-2010, 08:28 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,213,174 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
All three of the OP proposals are fundamentally economic, and none of them address the moral bankruptcy which is the real downfall of our nation. Merely obstructing the greedy will only make them dig their heels in deeper.
Very true but the economic downfall we are entering will make it hard for them to fight it. The opposite camp to mine will not be liberal or conservative, it will be all out authoritarianism. The greedy will be target number 1, they will either submit to a system that will still allow them to try to succeed with real rules and accountability, or they will be completely stopped by violent authoritarian rule.
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
37,803 posts, read 41,013,481 times
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Some people thought President Obama was going to change Washington, DC and were dismayed to find he wanted to change America.
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:20 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,213,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
Some people thought President Obama was going to change Washington, DC and were dismayed to find he wanted to change America.
Very true. I don't think the change we need wil come from politicians, it will need to be a mass movement.
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:31 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,856,573 times
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My siode is the taxpayers including future generations; not some greedy politcal interest group who is wanting paid for suppoort. How does what economist think will end up to be a 9 trillon dollar debt sound to you to payoff. Economist seem to think that we are at teh point that it indangers our basci economy. That is not chump change but debt created by chumps who voted to do it.
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Old 01-25-2010, 09:41 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,213,174 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
My siode is the taxpayers including future generations; not some greedy politcal interest group who is wanting paid for suppoort. How does what economist think will end up to be a 9 trillon dollar debt sound to you to payoff. Economist seem to think that we are at teh point that it indangers our basci economy. That is not chump change but debt created by chumps who voted to do it.
TEX,

$9 Trillion is chump change. We you add up we as a people actually owe it is frightening. Add in Federal Government Debt, State and Muni Debt, household Debt, financial Debt, business debt, unfunded entitlements and pensions, etc. We are looking at $174 Trillion in Debt. http://mwhodges.home.att.net/debt-summary-table.htm

How does an economy of $14 trillion service, little own pay that off?

Can we say economic collapse?

After that we can rebuild it with the three solutions I outline.
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