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Zazi goes to prison forever, for thinking about a crime. He associated with intended terrorists, and acquired and assembled a bomb. But then threw the bomb away and never harmed nor endangered anyone. What was his crime?
Parallel case: You and I talk about writing a bad check, and we buy a ballpoint pen. But I change my mind in the bank lobby and throw the pen away, and never write a bad check. Have I committed a crime?
IIRC possessing an explosive device designed for destruction of life and property as well as possession of unlicensed explosive or explosive components (sulfur, niter and charcoal) is also a crime (there may be a provision for possessing these chemicals for legitimate reasons). The possession of certain types of fireworks is also illegal in some jurisdictions. Presumably because the really large firecrackers (cherry bombs, M-80's etc.) are dangerous as is and can be modified to be really dangerous.
Thus Zazi committed a crime when he acquired the makings and assembled a bomb. However, as he disposed of the bomb and never actually used it he should only be charged if a policeman actually found the device in his possession. Some people might charge Zazi based on this testimony. I would not charge him if the only evidence was testimony from a captured terrorist or a police agent. I would not consider them reliable witnesses.
The same can be said for ordinary things that can be bought at a stationery store:
Ohio Revised Statutes
2941.16 Description of forgery materials sufficient.
In an indictment or information for engraving or making the whole or part of an instrument, matter, or thing, or for using or having the unlawful custody or possession of a plate or other material upon which the whole or part of an instrument, matter, or thing was engraved or made, or for having the unlawful custody or possession of a paper upon which the whole or part of an instrument, matter, or thing was made or printed, it is sufficient to describe such instrument, matter, or thing by any name or designation by which it is usually known.
Terrorists are unsanctioned and their acts are criminal, no matter how destructive, and are not acts of war. Said acts are the responsibility of the terrorists and his cohorts. Soldiers are sanctioned and their actions are acts of war and the acts, within the rules of warfare, are the responsibility of the sanctioning government. Acts of torture illegal under the rules of war are the joint responsibility of the individuals and the government that sanctioned the violations.
This is why our acts of war against Iraq and Afghanistan are illegal invasions of sovereign countries. Neither country sanctioned the acts of either the Taliban or Al Quida. Only Saudi Arabia, because their government security and/or their intelligence agencies did not interfere with the plans of the Saudi citizens taking part in the 9/11 terrorist act, are complicit in an Act of War against the United States. An invasion of Saudi Arabia, with the goal of destroying the government that implicitly sanctioned 9/11, would have been allowed under the international rules of war.
Interesting question. That is the libertarian argument basically, similar to their argument that owning a tank or nuke bomb should not be a crime, only the use of the weapon should be.
I have always struggled with that way of thinking since some things can cause such instant widespread destruction.
As I am with a lot of issues like this I prefer to focus my energy on the abuses of these laws when it comes to innocent people. We need to be on the lookout for abuses of these laws but championing the case of an obvious terrorist is not a winning argument.
I have always struggled with that way of thinking since some things can cause such instant widespread destruction.
Any man with access to a loaded gun can instantly and without warning cause my death, and may in his mind desire to do so, and may even have discussed that end with another. That by itself does not make the man guilty of any criminal act.
Preparitory crimes are different and the punish as far as seriousness is also. That is why conspiracy to commit ;prepartory crimes to committt.possession of prohibited items is different. Like posseesion of drugs ;possession with intent to deliver and delivery are all different.The poossession of a gun is not against the law as is not many poisons.
Interesting analogy jtur88, so according to your reasoning, I can assemble and own all the bombs I want as long as I don't use them. If your neighbor is constantly assembling and stockpiling C-4 plastic and pesticide bombs and maybe even toss a few in the garbage, then you see no crime commited as long as he doesn't try to blow anything up? People are supposed to die before the criminal system is supposed to step in? Riiiight.
Two words: Reactive, proactive. Sit on that for a moment.
Zazi goes to prison forever, for thinking about a crime. He associated with intended terrorists, and acquired and assembled a bomb. But then threw the bomb away and never harmed nor endangered anyone. What was his crime?
Parallel case: You and I talk about writing a bad check, and we buy a ballpoint pen. But I change my mind in the bank lobby and throw the pen away, and never write a bad check. Have I committed a crime?
Your analogy is flawed, but would be more accurate if, say, some nine years previous of you tossing your would-be check kiting pen in the trash, a coalition of radical fundamentalist terrorists unleashed a massive bad check attack on U.S. financial institutions, bringing our country to its knees and prompting a war in which thousands of young American men died. If that were the case, then, yeah, I would say the feds should lock your butt up for donkey's years.
But since that's not the case, you're mixing apples with oranges. The punishment must fit the crime. Zazi was swimming with sharks and went 90% of the way in engaging in a terrorist act. Bombs kill people, and this country is still smarting from 9-11 and its repercussions.
Bad checks only kill your credit score. And there's no such thing as a bad pen.
Well, unless it's one of those poisonous gas-releasing types like ol' James Bond might use....
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