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This country will never reconcile race because of the absence of and respect for history. It’s true that a lot of whites under the age of 30 are a lot less racist than their parents, but the offset to that increase in acceptance is that they are too young to connect the past to the present. Furthermore, this country cannot reconcile race because whites simply cannot empathize with the situation that blacks are in.
What the OP does not realize is that to the average African American, what we learn in traditional public schools is Eurocentric. All the history that I read about, that were required classes to graduate, dealt with the history of white folks, told from a white perspective. The only time I seen people that looked like me was in brief reference to enslavement or people fighting for equality. I could name you a ton of leaders and figures from European history, after graduating high school, but I could not give you the name of one great leader or figure from the continent of Africa.
Subconsciously, what do you think it feels like to be black when your history starts with being the inferior property of others? What do you think it does subconsciously to not have “roots”? Do you think plants with rotted roots will even grow and bloom like those with healthy roots? Whites have the luxury of being deeply rooted and well connected, which creates a foundation and nutrients for health produce. You don’t appreciate it because it’s always been there for you. Many of you don’t even care about that history, which is easy to do when it has always been there for you. You never miss the water until the well runs dry, so to speak, and it has always been dry for blacks in this country.
That not withstanding, whites have demonstrated little respect for Africa. Whites generally have a negative view of Africa and its people. They see the continent and its people as inferior and a basket case. Many, many whites believe that enslavement by whites of blacks in the West did blacks a favor, lest we would be back in Africa today. They either disrespect the continent and its people….or pity them. This view is clear and gets absorbed by blacks and helps reinforce a negative self image by membership in the group. Thus, you have many, many black people in America who actually look down upon Africa and Africans……..and that is there roots. Hence, black people have no foundation to be proud of……..when its left up to whites to tell the story.
What Afrocrentic studies do is essentially allow black people to take root. You cannot understand this unless you have been uprooted. It allows black people to see blacks other than as servants and property of others, through history. It provides blacks with what whites are provided by normal or standard curricula in this country. Certainly you cannot integrate these teachings in a mixed public school. That would require a cutting back on the teaching of European history and people and filling in the void with African teachings and history. No school district of whites will accept this and this is why Afrocentric charter schools are created. The schools produce much better results than regular public schools because regular public schools essentially teaches blacks that they have no history and foundation that is worthy of respect.
People ask these type of questions like the OP did....but they really don't want the answer to their question. They don't like the idea that blacks can do something and they cannot. That flies in the face of traditional white privelege. Hence, they see it as a "double standard". However, double standards exist as a result of "double histories". In other words, we can do things that you cannot do because you don't share the same history that we do. If you want to be able to do what we do....then how about going through what blacks have been through....to make it even? You want all the little benefits we have.....but don't want the pain that we went through to get it. You don't need "Medicine" if you are not ill. Whites complain about not being able to take "medicine" while blacks can....yet.....you don't want to be equally ill in order to merit it. You just don't like the ideal of black folk getting something that you are not.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 05-12-2010 at 08:57 AM..
So, is it constructive to fight this alleged hegemony of dominant white culture with an obsequious fawning over minorities?
What fight? The only folks who are fighting are some white folks who seemed to fearfully preoccupied with women and minorities learning about their history in a manner that justly examines their role in shaping it. Nothing personal, but your argument isn't terribly different from the Antebellum prohibition of allowing slaves to read or write.
As for obsequious fawning, a fascinating and revealing piece of phraseology.
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Should minorities be socially allowed to bask in their status while the majority hides it head over what happened hundreds of years ago?
Again, please point to specific examples of the "majority" hiding their heads over what happened hundreds of years ago, or any demand to do so.
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All of this garbage just adds to racial tensions.
What sorts of tensions racial tensions do you believe are lessened when you refer to the education of the populace to the cultural achievements of people of color as garbage? Apparently, it would appear that the only tensions that you are concerned about are those that disturb your personal comfort.
Maybe the hallowed halls of university academia (which are infested with putrid Leftism to the core) will start having "White-American Studies" degrees to complement the African-American Studies?
Perhaps if you had a modicum of education you might have noticed entire departments devoted to western civilization, or European literature.
People ask these type of questions like the OP did....but they really don't want the answer to their question. They don't like the idea that blacks can do something and they cannot. That flies in the face of traditional white privelege. Hence, they see it as a "double standard". However, double standards exist as a result of "double histories". In other words, we can do things that you cannot do because you don't share the same history that we do.
You just don't like the ideal of black folk getting something that you are not.
My opinions have nothing to do with "white privilege". I just don't like the idea of rectifying racial injustice (which admittedly was real) with special benefits for minorities because it flies in the face of what true equality is. I want to live in a society where whites, blacks, orientals and eskimos all have the same abilities and chances to do what they want and where people aren't judged by their skin color. This will never happen with certain minorities segregating themselves and playing the victim card. If we want to correct the wrongs of the past and live in a society that is colorblind then focusing on race will not get us there.
Ask yourself this: If whites were to proudly proclaim pride in their race and attempt to segregate themselves would you view them as racist? What if a black person were to do the same? Would you view them as being racist as well? Are blacks allowed to (and should they) get away with more in regards to stuff like this?
Last edited by Renaldo5000; 05-12-2010 at 10:56 AM..
You cannot understand this unless you have been uprooted.
...but they really don't want the answer to their question. They don't like the idea that blacks can do something and they cannot.
First comment: I'm Jewish, so will you grant that I understand you perfectly? There's no need to explain anything further to me. And don't even get started with the you're-white-so-you-can-fit-in line. Push comes to shove and I'm not white; I'm Jewish.
Second comment: that runs both ways, which you demonstrate over and over again. After enough repetition, it sounds more like rationalization than explanation.
What fight? The only folks who are fighting are some white folks who seemed to fearfully preoccupied with women and minorities learning about their history in a manner that justly examines their role in shaping it.
Nothing personal, but your argument isn't terribly different from the Antebellum prohibition of allowing slaves to read or write.
Again, please point to specific examples of the "majority" hiding their heads over what happened hundreds of years ago, or any demand to do so.
I am repulsed by how minorities were treated in the history of this country. It was not fair at all. I have nothing against anybody learning about their history or their group's history. But, there exists a relatively modern phenomenon in our society, media and educational system where the minority is exalted no matter what and the majority is both silently and openly chastised or even demonized. Such insinuations and viewpoints have reached excessive proportions in certain branches of the media and in our universities (one of the big reasons that I left). This is not healthy for society.
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Originally Posted by ovcatto
What sorts of racial tensions do you believe are lessened when you refer to the education of the populace to the cultural achievements of people of color as garbage?
I never said the cultural contributions of people of color were garbage. I said that a lot of the problems afflicting their communities are self-inflicted. Those are two completely different subjects. It isn't white people who are running around and shooting each other in black neighborhoods.
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Originally Posted by ovcatto
Apparently, it would appear that the only tensions that you are concerned about are those that disturb your personal comfort.
I don't give a damn about my personal comfort. I live in a democracy where freedom of speech and freedom of expression are allowed. It stands to reason that I am probably going to be offended at least once a day by something. That's the price you pay for living in a democracy. Because I criticize things that I see contributing to fractious separatism and which are detrimental to our society....that makes me wrong? I don't think so.
By the way, the last girl I dated was half-black and last year I drove my black friend 2,000 miles to his new home. So, I don't think I'm a racist or that I am "uncomfortable with people of color".
Last edited by Renaldo5000; 05-12-2010 at 11:09 AM..
In the recognition of those men and their contributions and talents there is not a component of celebration in regards to their racial heritage. We don't prattle on and on about how Mozart was a "fine example of a white musical prodigy" or how Newton was a "caucasian genius". But, we have a black history month where the titans of black achievement are specifically singled out for their race.
White people are not allowed to be proud of or mention their race. Black people are allowed to. It is a double standard and if you can't see it then pull your head out of your ass. This kind of clannish and tribalistic bull**** from minorities encourages separatism and division between the races much more than the white supremacists ever could.
...Doesn't mean it's gospel for everyone else
First of all, let me offer some info...I'm black and fiftysomething, and I have, in my life and times, studied and read about history and culture from not just my own racial group, but others as well...my siblings and I were raised in a loving two-parent home, where we were (gasp!!) NOT taught to 'blame whitey' for any negative situations we encountered in our lives, and to get up off our assets and WORK for everything we have, people's prejudices be damned...
I am proud to say that I have, along the way, met good and decent people of all races, people that I have been proud to call friends and neighbors...but I digress...
I'd LOVE to see anywhere that it states that whites cannot be 'proud of their race' and be deemed racist in the same breath...and that 'clannish and tribalistic bull****' as you put it, seems to be a major thorn in your side, to which I say---tough nuts...
I'm very sorry if people aren't kneeling to recognize your whiteness in a manner you see fit...furthermore, as another poster put it, stuff like BET is simply marketing of a product to a niche group (in this case African-Americans)... and further, Black History Month is aimed at educating not only blacks, but everyone else interested, in the history and accomplishments of black Americans...
In conclusion, sir, if Black History Month, or BET, or Africentric-themed and curriculumed schools, bothers you, I strongly suggest that you find some tools, build a bridge, and get over it...your standing around shaking your fists and bellowing with faux 'outrage' over something you can do absolutely nothing about is a noisy, non-productive waste of time...minorities in this country are NOT lining up to kiss your ring as you speak
Considering the level of Jewish specific education, cultural emphasis, and exclusionary practices, for a Jew to start this kind of thread is simply astounding and I say this as the father of Jewish girl who has attended Jewish schools, and educational programs including those that encourage Jewish kids to live in Israel during the summer.
First of all, let me offer some info...I'm black and fiftysomething, and I have, in my life and times, studied and read about history and culture from not just my own racial group, but others as well...my siblings and I were raised in a loving two-parent home, where we were (gasp!!) NOT taught to 'blame whitey' for any negative situations we encountered in our lives, and to get up off our assets and WORK for everything we have, people's prejudices be damned...
My comments and complaints are not directed toward people like you - they are directed toward the politically-correct attitudes present in certain areas of our society and toward the militant seperatism that is preached by extremists on both sides. I view a white supremacist in the same light as a view a black supremacist/seperatist.
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Originally Posted by captaincatfish
I'd LOVE to see anywhere that it states that whites cannot be 'proud of their race' and be deemed racist in the same breath...and that 'clannish and tribalistic bull****' as you put it, seems to be a major thorn in your side, to which I say---tough nuts...
Have a black guy go on TV and say he's proud to be black. Then have a white guy go on TV and say he's proud to be white. Watch the difference between how both declarations are accepted.
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Originally Posted by captaincatfish
I'm very sorry if people aren't kneeling to recognize your whiteness in a manner you see fit
I don't want anybody to kiss my ass, and I'm not going to kiss anybody else's ass. I'm not going to fawn over a rich white guy because he has a nice car and conversely I'm not going to fawn over a minority because their great-great grandparents got the shaft.
I am the true non-racist. I don't give a damn what color somebody is. But, I still notice inconsistencies in what the races are allowed to "get away with".
First of all, let me offer some info...I'm black and fiftysomething, and I have, in my life and times, studied and read about history and culture from not just my own racial group, but others as well...my siblings and I were raised in a loving two-parent home, where we were (gasp!!) NOT taught to 'blame whitey' for any negative situations we encountered in our lives, and to get up off our assets and WORK for everything we have, people's prejudices be damned...
I am proud to say that I have, along the way, met good and decent people of all races, people that I have been proud to call friends and neighbors...but I digress...
I'd LOVE to see anywhere that it states that whites cannot be 'proud of their race' and be deemed racist in the same breath...and that 'clannish and tribalistic bull****' as you put it, seems to be a major thorn in your side, to which I say---tough nuts...
I'm very sorry if people aren't kneeling to recognize your whiteness in a manner you see fit...furthermore, as another poster put it, stuff like BET is simply marketing of a product to a niche group (in this case African-Americans)... and further, Black History Month is aimed at educating not only blacks, but everyone else interested, in the history and accomplishments of black Americans...
In conclusion, sir, if Black History Month, or BET, or Africentric-themed and curriculumed schools, bothers you, I strongly suggest that you find some tools, build a bridge, and get over it...your standing around shaking your fists and bellowing with faux 'outrage' over something you can do absolutely nothing about is a noisy, non-productive waste of time...minorities in this country are NOT lining up to kiss your ring as you speak
I don't know the answer to the problem. There may not be a correct annswer. But here is the problem; One of the prime reasons for there to be a reason for Afrocentric schools is that blacks supposedly do better academically when in an environment with other blacks. Whites would also do better in an environment consisting of only whites. So one of the prime reasons we would have Afrocentric schools, is the same reason we would have Euro-centric schools. (Not that it is technically significant, but in a few decades whites will no longer have a majority of the population) So, now we have segregation in our schools based on achieving optimum peformance in the classroom.
The next question is, Do we have segregated colleges and universities? I would think we would, for the same reason we have segregated city schools. After years of segregated classrooms in our city schools, it might be almost necessary to have segregated universities. Do we then have segregated intern programs and apprenticeships? The list potentially goes on and on and permeates all of society.
So, the bottomline question is, Do we really want to reestablish school segregation? Like I said, I don't know the answer, but it is something that has to be considered long and hard before initiating.
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Just Because YOU Say Something With Conviction...
