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Thank you. Would you pass the salmonella , please?
Snarky is the best you can do? Really?
People at rawsome were participating in a co-op. They owned the animals producing their food. This was not food for sale to the public at large. It was a distribution center for the share owners to pick-up their product.
With freedom comes choice, as well. As in, we have the CHOICE to choose what we eat. Who cares if you don't like what I eat? You eat what you want, I'll eat what I want, and others will eat what they want. You do not dictate to me what I eat and the government should not be dictating to anyone what they eat.
Remember, when you start asking the gov to control people, eventually they are going to control you, too.
RESPONSIBILITY does not mean "do it the way I want you to do it", it means we take responsibility for our own actions. So if someone wants to chow down on fast food three times a day, they will have to take responsibility for that, later with or without your or the governments input.
I totally agree mate (with the bolded part) in theory but not the next sentence. This ideal that "we take responsibility for our own actions" is something I totally stand by and support, personally. But the point you've missed all along I've been making, is many people DO NOT CARE and do not take responsibility. By leading a crappy lifestyle eating junky rubbish, that's not "taking responsbility" at all, neither is feeding it to their children who always think their parents know best and learn that that is what they should eat.
Responsibility doesn't just mean dealing with the consequences, it means having the responsibility to not eat junk food in the first place.
If not they then drag down society and cost it dearly with all their health problems etcetera which is why the government has some right to warn people about the effects of their scoffing of junk foods, or even to tax it which would be a good idea. A junk-food tax will not be an issue for people who already eat responsibly. I think Denmark has introduced one recently.
So a question for you ThreeWolvesInSnow. Simple yes/no.
Do you believe that a parent who feeds a child McDonalds every day twice is teaching that child responsible eating?
I said people need educating. Didn't say anybody should force them to eat certain things. They'll see the consequences of a junk food diet come what may. The point of educating, in my view, is so people become wiser to make better choices and take responsibility for themselves, by themselves later on through their life. Educating about healthy eating should come at school when people are still children and parents should know not to feed crap to children too. I was never fed sugary or junk food crap as a child. Doing so is no better than making your child take up smoking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit
Nothing like elitists from another country telling people whats good and bad to eat
I am so sick of other people telling me and mine what's best for us.
You think certain foods are unhealthy? Great, don't eat them but don't tell other people they need to be "educated"...
You sound like Hitler or Mao with their re-education, they just "knew better" then everyone else...
I'll take this:
Over this any day of the week:
Both are junk food, I wouldn't take either over the other. I don't even know what that thing is in the second picture but it doesn't look healthy.
Now what is wrong with educating people about not eating junk food? That's not dictatorship, that's not socialism, and it's not "telling people what to do", it's advising people about the effects of eating crappy foods so they are less ignorant about it and can make wiser choices, and it's certainly not comparable to Hitler or Mao for hell's sake man! LOL. Sure they can still eat the rubbish but rather them than me!
And yes, some people do "know better" how to eat healthier than others. That's stating the obvious!
It's sad when parents give their kids no CHOICE by immediately shoving junk food into their faces. And what about eating junk food when pregnant and the terrible effects that has. Where's the responsibility in that huh? Freedom of choice working so well there. You think these people don't need educating? Anyone who does has the skewed perceptions.
There is definitely something Orwellian about the land of the free, and the feeling is getting more "intense" every day. I say this as somebody who grew up in USSR, and from personal experience the Empire of Evil didn't come EVEN CLOSE to the levels of micro-manegement and legislation of every aspect of human existence you can observe here. It's not a thread to speculate "why" so back to the milk.
There was nothing but raw milk in the village I grew up. In my 20 something years there I haven't heard about a SINGLE case of milk related food poisoning not speaking of the death. So the dangers of raw milk requiring heavy government action are greatly exaggerated, they do exist (mostly in the market driven operations having cash as #1 priority) but 538 people (+/-) fall from their beds and die EVERY year. What government should do about that? People die, this night a person will die again because government does nothing to stop that. What a shame. "Ironically" big operations posing most of the treats to the human health have no trouble "complying" with whatever regulation that their lobbyists pushed through. It's a small, the least "dangerous" guy who gets a kick in the butt.
Here are a few pictures of a commercial diary 100 miles or less West of Chicago. As far as government is concerned, it's safe and compliant, and what a yummy milk Mexican milk hands can squeeze from those excrement covered udders.
1) Cows live on the slitted concrete floor in their waste, day and night. Cows "pulverize" their waste with their feet, dilute it with their urine and resulting "mash" drain through the slits in concrete floor to the holding tanks. Cow udders are in direct contact with liquid excrement and cold concrete floor for as long as a cow lies down (it's impossible without horse doses of antibiotics). Imagine a human female under those conditions? Sure, we are "intelligent", we have the gods given right to whatever bestiality wrt less "intelligent" ones, especially if it means profit. No pasture strolls (marketeers love to put those on the milk labels) here.
2) Cow's tails are cut off, so that liquid waste trapped in those tails would not be "sprayed" on the milks hands and cows bodies. Cows tail is indispensable for cow well-being. Imagine summer time and all those flies and bugs around a cow with no tail. On the "positive" side, average lifespan of a cow is 3-4 years under these conditions. Under "primitive" not market oriented conditions a cow may stay productive for up to 25 years. Do you see the difference?
3) Apparently overflowing waste ponds pose no threat to human health and water supplies, not speaking of soil fertility. Government and industry experts wouldn't do something to undermine common sense and our long term survival, would they?
Last edited by RememberMee; 10-23-2011 at 09:11 AM..
I totally agree mate (with the bolded part) in theory but not the next sentence. This ideal that "we take responsibility for our own actions" is something I totally stand by and support, personally. But the point you've missed all along I've been making, is many people DO NOT CARE and do not take responsibility. By leading a crappy lifestyle eating junky rubbish, that's not "taking responsbility" at all, neither is feeding it to their children who always think their parents know best and learn that that is what they should eat.
Responsibility doesn't just mean dealing with the consequences, it means having the responsibility to not eat junk food in the first place.
If not they then drag down society and cost it dearly with all their health problems etcetera which is why the government has some right to warn people about the effects of their scoffing of junk foods, or even to tax it which would be a good idea. A junk-food tax will not be an issue for people who already eat responsibly. I think Denmark has introduced one recently.
So a question for you ThreeWolvesInSnow. Simple yes/no.
Do you believe that a parent who feeds a child McDonalds every day twice is teaching that child responsible eating?
I said people need educating. Didn't say anybody should force them to eat certain things. They'll see the consequences of a junk food diet come what may. The point of educating, in my view, is so people become wiser to make better choices and take responsibility for themselves, by themselves later on through their life. Educating about healthy eating should come at school when people are still children and parents should know not to feed crap to children too. I was never fed sugary or junk food crap as a child. Doing so is no better than making your child take up smoking.
Both are junk food, I wouldn't take either over the other. I don't even know what that thing is in the second picture but it doesn't look healthy.
Now what is wrong with educating people about not eating junk food? That's not dictatorship, that's not socialism, and it's not "telling people what to do", it's advising people about the effects of eating crappy foods so they are less ignorant about it and can make wiser choices, and it's certainly not comparable to Hitler or Mao for hell's sake man! LOL. Sure they can still eat the rubbish but rather them than me!
And yes, some people do "know better" how to eat healthier than others. That's stating the obvious!
It's sad when parents give their kids no CHOICE by immediately shoving junk food into their faces. And what about eating junk food when pregnant and the terrible effects that has. Where's the responsibility in that huh? Freedom of choice working so well there. You think these people don't need educating? Anyone who does has the skewed perceptions.
You're failing to understand the point, which is that in a free country, you do not get to choose what "responsible" is for another person. That they don't agree with you about such things, by the way, doesn't make them irresponsible, necessarily. It could simply be that they disagree with you (shocking, I know, but there it is).
The real crux of the matter, though, is in your ideal world where "irresponsible" people had no rights, who gets to decide who that applies to? And what's to stop them from defining you, either now or in future, as "irresponsible" because they don't like something you're doing, or the way you think, or any number of other things that could be used to put you in that category.
People who are hell bent for leather on removing freedom from others somehow never seem to quite realize that they are stating right up front that it's fine and dandy for someone else to remove theirs. Because that would never happen to them, because they are "responsible". Thing is, it pretty much always does, since what goes around, comes around.
So, Weatherfan2, I declare that you are irresponsible for wanting to divest others of their freedom, and should thus have your life choices managed lest you be a danger to yourself. Clearly, you're fine with that, correct?
There is definitely something Orwellian about the land of the free, and the feeling is getting more "intense" every day. I say this as somebody who grew up in USSR, and from personal experience the Empire of Evil didn't come EVEN CLOSE to the levels of micro-manegement and legislation of every aspect of human existence you can observe here. It's not a thread to speculate "why" so back to the milk.
There was nothing but raw milk in the village I grew up. In my 20 something years there I haven't heard about a SINGLE case of milk related food poisoning not speaking of the death. So the dangers of raw milk requiring heavy government action are greatly exaggerated, they do exist (mostly in the market driven operations having cash as #1 priority) but 538 people (+/-) fall from their beds and die EVERY year. What government should do about that? People die, this night a person will die again because government does nothing to stop that. What a shame. "Ironically" big operations posing most of the treats to the human health have no trouble "complying" with whatever regulation that their lobbyists pushed through. It's a small, the least "dangerous" guy who gets a kick in the butt.
Here are a few pictures of a commercial diary 100 miles or less West of Chicago. As far as government is concerned, it's safe and compliant, and what a yummy milk Mexican milk hands can squeeze from those excrement covered udders.
1) Cows live on the slitted concrete floor in their waste, day and night. Cows "pulverize" their waste with their feet, dilute it with their urine and resulting "mash" drain through the slits in concrete floor to the holding tanks. Cow udders are in direct contact with liquid excrement and cold concrete floor for as long as a cow lies down (it's impossible without horse doses of antibiotics). Imagine a human female under those conditions? Sure, we are "intelligent", we have the gods given right to whatever bestiality wrt less "intelligent" ones, especially if it means profit. No pasture strolls (marketeers love to put those on the milk labels) here.
2) Cow's tails are cut off, so that liquid waste trapped in those tails would not be "sprayed" on the milks hands and cows bodies. Cows tail is indispensable for cow well-being. Imagine summer time and all those flies and bugs around a cow with no tail. On the "positive" side, average lifespan of a cow is 3-4 years under these conditions. Under "primitive" not market oriented conditions a cow may stay productive for up to 25 years. Do you see the difference?
3) Apparently overflowing waste ponds pose no threat to human health and water supplies, not speaking of soil fertility. Government and industry experts wouldn't do something to undermine common sense and our long term survival, would they?
This is all pretty much true, except for the 'Mexican milk hands'....most large-scale dairy farms use machines to milk the cows. Dairy is gross.
Both are junk food, I wouldn't take either over the other. I don't even know what that thing is in the second picture but it doesn't look healthy.
It's called tea and crumpets, an English food...
Quote:
Now what is wrong with educating people about not eating junk food? That's not dictatorship, that's not socialism, and it's not "telling people what to do", it's advising people about the effects of eating crappy foods so they are less ignorant about it and can make wiser choices, and it's certainly not comparable to Hitler or Mao for hell's sake man! LOL. Sure they can still eat the rubbish but rather them than me!
The elitists here in America try and "educate" people all the time they know better then everyone else, fortunately people here in America have learned to recognize them and tune them out...
Quote:
And yes, some people do "know better" how to eat healthier than others. That's stating the obvious!
Spoken like a true know-it-all
Quote:
It's sad when parents give their kids no CHOICE by immediately shoving junk food into their faces.
Could you please post some pictures of parents shoving junk food down their child's throat or into their faces?
Since this disgusting practice seems to be a common occurrence in the UK as per you I'd like to see what it looks like...
This is all pretty much true, except for the 'Mexican milk hands'....most large-scale dairy farms use machines to milk the cows. Dairy is gross.
At that particular Illinois diary it's a dozen of Mexicans or so who feed and milk cows, anglos manage operations (as always). Vacuum milk pumps can be automated to different extent, that's true, but only 30,000 cows operations can afford truly industrial level milking automation (these many cows require industrial automation), the rest uses various amount of manual labor. I've been to medium sized diaries in TX, AZ (raw milk is legal, if you can afford the price), MD, IL all but a family farmer in MD employed Spanish speaking labor, how else they could sell a gallon of milk for $2.50/gal in grocery stores, it's cheaper than brand bottled water, it's cheaper than soft drink concoctions, it's cheaper than juice like substances, think about it.
At that particular Illinois diary it's a dozen of Mexicans or so who feed and milk cows, anglos manage operations (as always). Vacuum milk pumps can be automated to different extent, that's true, but only 30,000 cows operations can afford truly industrial level milking automation (these many cows require industrial automation), the rest uses various amount of manual labor. I've been to medium sized diaries in TX, AZ (raw milk is legal, if you can afford the price), MD, IL all but a family farmer in MD employed Spanish speaking labor, how else they could sell a gallon of milk for $2.50/gal in grocery stores, it's cheaper than brand bottled water, it's cheaper than soft drink concoctions, it's cheaper than juice like substances, think about it.
Your rant belongs in the illegal immigration forum...
The elitists here in America try and "educate" people all the time they know better then everyone else, fortunately people here in America have learned to recognize them and tune them out...
Thanks...
You mean "elitists" sitting in the corporate boardrooms, advertizing & PR agencies who hooked "fortunate" people in America on the highly processed junk using the most stupid advertisements campaigns and primitive subliminal NLP techniques? "Elitists" in Coca Cola and McD corporations cough up almost TWO BILLIONs dollars each year for the consumer "education" of essentially the same junk it was 30 years ago, they prey (very successfully) on the children of the ones who learned to recognize. It's a business, they would never spend that kind of money if consumer "education" wouldn't pay for itself tenfold.
And what a fine job corporate "educators" did, I look around me and see people who never as in NEVER tasted real fresh food stuff in their lives (vegetables, meats, diary, fruits) and they do NOT want to, they are hooked and properly "educated" and funny thing they truly think that it's them who make those choices, it's not decades of proper "education" that made choices for them.
Your rant belongs in the illegal immigration forum...
Nope it belongs to food forum, you should know how milks is made to be cheaper than the branded purified water & soft junk, considering all the production costs and environmental damages. Besides, being myself from not around here, I'm not obsessing about immigration legalities, it's preying on the desperate and weak of all legal statuses that disturbs me.
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