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If you are a Portuguese and living in Hawaii you will be respected because everyone knows you can cook really well and if invited to the next pot luck you'll bring really tasty soup and malasadas. And Portuguese look different than everyone else just as Chinese folks look different from Japanese folks.
I had a neighbor once, blond, haole and da kine to boot, but she was born and raised on Oahu. She could even speak Hawaiian but she was never fully accepted and always seemed to have a chip on her shoulder about one thing or another. I suspect it was the chip on the shoulder and the attitude which kept her from being accepted. She was always "not from around here" since Oahu is a different island and therefore "not here". Had she tried to fit into the group, I'm sure she would have been local.
Once you are part of the group, you are local, no matter your origins. But to be part of the group, you have to actually BE part of the group. That isn't just living somewhere for a couple of years on your way to somewhere else. It's helping with the various local groups, interacting with the neighbors, spending time with the folks around you, especially the ones that are already local. Go to the baby luaus, go to the Obon dances, go to the local high school foot ball games, use the local library, shop at the local stores (note, a local store is not Walmart), try a farmer's market and get to know the folks who grow your food. Be part of your community and you'll become "local" fast enough. You may always be a "local haole" but you'll be part of the group. When your name changes to "Uncle" or "Auntie" then it's all good.
Kinda sounds like a lot of places.
I grew up in rural Michigan along the Great Lakes.
There were always 'those city people' buying up property and playing at the beaches during the Summer.
But, those of us who were 'local' were there all-year-round, attended high school ball games, ate at fish fries, drove around in old beater cars, etc., all the rest.
Doesn't sound all that much different from anywhere else that has 'them' and 'locals'. I also agree that a 'them' can live in your community long-term, but really have no connection whatsoever to anything local. i.e. a city person living in a cottage and spending summers out on his/her boat regularly for years every summer...but have no connection whatsoever to anyone or anything local. Just that guy running around in a sports car, probably shopping in his spare time more than anything else.
UHgrad: Could you expand on your thoughts about the Japanese / Korean subgroup tensions? I've heard about it but don't know the history behind it or why it exists.
I've lived in South Korea and Japan for around 10 years combined...
It's mostly one-sided...Japanese seem to really like Koreans and Korean things.
However, Japan brutalized the Koreans horribly during Japan's colonizing period. SInce most of the older generation of Koreans are still very much alive and remember that well, of course they'll share every detail and memory with their younger generations. There is some VERY strong resentments.
When I taught English in Korea, if I just said the word 'Japan', it was sure to rile up the classroom very quickly. If I say the word 'Korea' to Japanese, they talk about K-Pop music and Korean dramas.
When I lived in South Korea, you almost never saw anything Japanese ever. No Japanese cars, no Japanese music, etc. Occassionally they'll download it in the internet cafes. But it hasn't been forgotten what the Japanese did to the Koreans, and probably won't be for a long time.
China also has strong feelings of extremely bad feelings towards the Japanese for similar reasons.
I tend to agree with UHgrad on this. It is interesting that occasionally I'll be walking with friends who are not local (mainlanders, but of Asian decent), and I'll be the one who get's "stink eye". And it's so obvious my friends will ask "what was that all about" ? Even though my friends are just as much "outsiders" as I am, they are more immediately accepted.
UHgrad: Could you expand on your thoughts about the Japanese / Korean subgroup tensions? I've heard about it but don't know the history behind it or why it exists.
That's why you can't say the Asians in Hawaii would necessarily behave in monolithic fashion, much less would band together with the sole purpose of ostracizing white people.LOL... The top 2 Asian groups of Hawaii, for instance - the Filipinos and Japanese - don't necessarily see eye to eye with each other given Japan's brutal history of Philippine occupation during WW2. The antipathy that Chinese and Koreans harbor towards the Japanese pretty much stems from the same historical baggage. Present-day Asians in Hawaii may be cordial to each other, but these historical grievances have not necessarily been forgotten.
That's why a white person in Hawaii who thinks he's being singled out for ostracism by the non-white groups is being pathologically paranoid, in my opinion.
This statment is very true. I have lived in Hawaii,(Big Island) and I never one time had trouble with the Local. I repected them and they respected me. In fact my Heart is still in Hawaii, Much Aloha to everyone there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayy911
Is this a fair statement regarding white mainlanders moving to Hawaii:
If you're kind, courteous and have a good head on your shoulders, you're polite, and aren't arrogant, you will not be the victim of racism in Hawaii.
I tend to agree with UHgrad on this. It is interesting that occasionally I'll be walking with friends who are not local (mainlanders, but of Asian decent), and I'll be the one who get's "stink eye". And it's so obvious my friends will ask "what was that all about" ? Even though my friends are just as much "outsiders" as I am, they are more immediately accepted.
UHgrad: Could you expand on your thoughts about the Japanese / Korean subgroup tensions? I've heard about it but don't know the history behind it or why it exists.
I think the other guys summed up the historical perspective pretty well which pertains mostly to the older generation. I will add that this didn't help:
As far as the general population, my experience was just that local Japanese thought the local Koreans were rude and local Koreans (and a lot of other groups) thought the local Japanese are arrogant.
It is kind of a non-issue, there aren't brawls between Japanese kids and Korean kids, they just tend to have a few negative stereotypes about each other more often than other groups.
All things considered I think Hawaii does a really good job in dealing with all the cultures. The stereotypes tend to be a way to use comedy to better understand each other. It just takes some getting used to if you come from a place where people are conditioned to avoid talking about race out of fear or being labeled a "racist". One of my favorite examples:
That's why you can't say the Asians in Hawaii would necessarily behave in monolithic fashion, much less would band together with the sole purpose of ostracizing white people.LOL... The top 2 Asian groups of Hawaii, for instance - the Filipinos and Japanese - don't necessarily see eye to eye with each other given Japan's brutal history of Philippine occupation during WW2. The antipathy that Chinese and Koreans harbor towards the Japanese pretty much stems from the same historical baggage. Present-day Asians in Hawaii may be cordial to each other, but these historical grievances have not necessarily been forgotten.
That's why a white person in Hawaii who thinks he's being singled out for ostracism by the non-white groups is being pathologically paranoid, in my opinion.
LOL, pathologically paranoid.
Or... whites are resented by all groups because they colonized the islands and brought in waves of asian immigrants to work hard labor in their sugar cane fields while they got rich and bought up most of the land. Perhaps the fact that they nearly wiped out the Hawaiians with disease, repressed Hawaiian culture and language, put local Japanese in camps during world war 2 has something to do with it as well. See where the "us" and "them" might come from historically?
More recently, the major groups of caucasians that locals interact with in Hawaii are:
1) enlisted men in their early 20's with a lot of testosterone and a military housing allowance
2) tourists
3) wealthy retirees and people with vacation homes
4) unmotivated surf bums that are willing to work for minimum wage + tips and have roommates
5) upper middle class NIMBYs living mostly in east Oahu (Kailua, Hawaii Kai, etc...)
...all of which contribute to the astronomically high cost of living for born and raised locals. Most of which have some attitude of entitlement. Some of which are statistically more likely to get in fights and confrontations regardless of where they are.
You can try to exaggerate peoples claims all you want with interpretations that are skewed towards the point you are trying to make, the words are saved in the thread so people can go read what was really said. This whole thing has been hashed out a thousand times on the internet, in classrooms, in the newspaper, etc... If you haven't lived there (and it sounds like you haven't) it is very hard to understand as a simple academic exercise in statistics. The races do not behave monolithically at all, there is a hierarchy but most fundamentally there is "local" and there is everything else. And for the most part a haole is assumed to be not local unless proven otherwise. The anti mainland haole sentiment (and anti anything not "local" to some degree) is not terrible, it is not the equivalent of being black in the south during the 60's by a long shot, it might not even be unreasonable given the history of the islands... but it exists and it is something people have to deal with. Perhaps this local put it best.
Or just do a search in this very forum called racism in Hawaii and read the posts. The underlying resentment comes through loud and clear.
Once again. It is not terrible, you do not deal with it every day, you are probably not going to get beat up or harassed because of it if you mind your own business, smile, and don't interject your opinion into touchy conversations... but it is there, it is part of the culture, and it is something to be aware of when you are moving to the islands.
Or... whites are resented by all groups because they colonized the islands and brought in waves of asian immigrants to work hard labor in their sugar cane fields while they got rich and bought up most of the land. Perhaps the fact that they nearly wiped out the Hawaiians with disease, repressed Hawaiian culture and language, put local Japanese in camps during world war 2 has something to do with it as well. See where the "us" and "them" might come from historically?
Well, if you behave in a way that reminds people of old wounds, then yeah, people will probably respond to you in kind. That's why the OP is correct. White mainlanders who come to Hawaii, behave arrogantly, and show disrespect for local culture (like someone on this thread who contemptuously said that taking classes to learn about Hawaiian culture is like living in "alternative reality" - as if the only valid reality that exists is the Anglo-Saxon one), you'd probably get your butt kicked.
Well, if you behave in a way that reminds people of old wounds, then yeah, people will probably respond to you in kind. That's why the OP is correct. White mainlanders who come to Hawaii, behave arrogantly, and show disrespect for local culture (like someone on this thread who contemptuously said that taking classes to learn about Hawaiian culture is like living in "alternative reality" - as if the only valid reality that exists is the Anglo-Saxon one), you'd probably get your butt kicked.
The OP actually said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayy911
Is this a fair statement regarding white mainlanders moving to Hawaii:
If you're kind, courteous and have a good head on your shoulders, you're polite, and aren't arrogant, you will not be the victim of racism in Hawaii.
Once again, you can twist the words how you want in order to prove your point but the thread is archived.
I agreed that the OP is on the right track... not acting like a jackass will improve your chances of being treated well. That is common sense advice anywhere and not really specific to Hawaii. What is specific to Hawaii is that there is are stereotypes, historical perspectives, and other "baggage" there already that you will have to deal with, regardless of how you act. That is all. I don't understand why it is a controversial thing to say?? It seems like it would apply universally, but for some reason folks get bent out of shape if someone insinuates that whitey has negative stereotypes against them and sometimes experiences discrimination in a culture that is 75% non-white and has colonialism in their history.
You could say the same thing about Latinos moving to Texas or Arizona. Being respectful, embracing the local culture, etc... improves your chances of fitting in but you are still gonna run into some *******s that simply don't like you because they are tired of all the Mexicans taking over their city. And if you are a Latino considering moving to those areas you need to be aware of that tension so that you can deal with it in the best way possible and incorporate into your decision.
The only thing that is unique here is that the mainland haole is on the receiving end of it instead of the giving end and people are used to it being the other way around in America. You are the one moving in and taking jobs, you are the one that doesn't speak the language, you are the one that has different cultural practices than the locals, you are the one that is trying to change the existing culture etc... Just be aware. Hawaii is a state but it is also an isolated chain of islands in the middle of the ocean populated primarily by indigenous people and the descendants of immigrants who were brought there to work in sugar cane fields. It has its own history, culture, way of speaking, and ideas about what it means to act "local", be "local", and look "local". Like Hotcatz said, it is a club, and you are not in the club right away... they have to offer you membership.
Once again, you can twist the words how you want in order to prove your point but the thread is archived.
I don't see where any words have been twisted. What I said was pretty much in agreement with the OP's statement. Maybe you just have a propensity for seeing things that are not there. Just like seeing "racism" in every nook and cranny in Hawaii - a product perhaps of a "white guilt" complex. I mean, you know the history of Hawaii and how white people had shabbily treated Hawaiians and Asians. You said so yourself. So you are anticipating some kind of racial blowback....because you think that's how human beings operate. They want revenge. That's your mental paradigm. Your perception of the world has been colored by such a paradigm. So then, you interpret every slight directed against you as a "racist act" done to avenge previous wrongs. In reality, you're just being paranoid.
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Mainlanders moving to Hawaii.
