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Government makes laws for the society as a whole. The individual loses sometimes. But the sum of individuals under the same government enjoy better representation and protection. It's called 'democracy'.
If the monk seal decides to crap on your patio, it is protected and entitled to do so. Send the cleanup bill to the DLNR and get reimbursed. Whine on message boards. Thousand other citizens will envy you for having had a rare monk seals on your patio and would even treasure their poop.
Trouble is, once they poop on your patio it becomes their habitat, and off limits to you, and possibly for extended periods, like indefinitely, and there's the rub, grasshopper.
Location: not sure, but there's a hell of a lot of water around here!
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Still has nothing to do with Hawaii. California has more marinas than Hawaii has available boat slips, California has thousands and thousands of sea lions and seals, Hawaii has less than a thousand monk seals, and, most importantly, Hawaii doesn't have patios. In all my years out on the water over here, I have never seen a monk seal. Not once.
Still has nothing to do with Hawaii. California has more marinas than Hawaii has available boat slips, California has thousands and thousands of sea lions and seals, Hawaii has less than a thousand monk seals, and, most importantly, Hawaii doesn't have patios. In all my years out on the water over here, I have never seen a monk seal. Not once.
Cannibals, however.............................
Let me take one final crack at "it".
It isn't about California, or California's seals, per se - the experience there was used as a point of reference. It isn't about patios or lanais, or the number of seals or whether you have seen one or not. It is about NONE of those things.
This is my point, and please read carefully, and with all "gotcha-opportunity" sensors turned off.
The Seal is so rare, so heavily protected, that if it establishes itself on your property, or on a place you use, such as that nice secluded beach you enjoy skinny dipping on, in almost all certainty, or at least likelihood, you will lose access to, and usage "rights", to that property, perhaps entirely, and perhaps into perpetuity, and without compensation.
Having said that, and without offering an opinion as to it being right or wrong, just or unjust, necessary or superfluous, the prospect of losing such access and usage rights can very well cause some people (not me) to kill them, harass them or in some way try to drive them away.
The Seal is so rare, so heavily protected, that if it establishes itself on your property, or on a place you use, such as that nice secluded beach you enjoy skinny dipping on, in almost all certainty, or at least likelihood, you will lose access to, and usage "rights", to that property, perhaps entirely, and perhaps into perpetuity, and without compensation.
Has this ever actually happened in Hawaii?
When we were on Kauai we were told by a lady who lives there, that this fella comes up and suns himself almost every afternoon over by Tunnels. No one lost anything, they just put up the ropes so he doesn't get harassed and every walks around him.
When we were on Kauai we were told by a lady who lives there, that this fella comes up and suns himself almost every afternoon over by Tunnels. No one lost anything, they just put up the ropes so he doesn't get harassed and every walks around him. Attachment 113186
I don't really know, but I suspect when this story gets out, it will attract a lot of attention from people who, if their past record is any indication, will soon be moving to close the beach to all humans.
Hawaii, is part of the U.S. The laws that govern the Delta Smelt and have turned vast tracts of the SJ Valley, one of the worlds most productive agricultural areas, into non-productive desert, apply in Hawaii equally. If the ecos are willing to put vast tracts of agricultural land out of service for a non-native fish, I would expect far more stringent controls to protect a far-rarer, more endangered creature like the Hawaiian Monk Seal, especially considering what happened to the one that used to inhabit the waters of the Caribbean (Kaput, I believe).
There was a group of investors that wanted to build a solar-heat collection station in the desert of California. They had invested a lot of money on engineering, plans, land procurement etc., but were stopped cold in their tracts because desert tortoise(s) might have gotten run over by trucks. It was the Sierra Club that initiated the action that ultimately shut down the project.
I have no flashlight into the souls of those that have killed these creatures. I have offered my opinion, based on years of experience or at least exposure, to real-world cases involving marine mammals, and endangered species. Perhaps the people who did this have seen what has happened elsewhere and are protecting what they perceive as their "turf".
It is a theory, only that, but it makes sense to me given the past record of eco-groups
It is possible that the ecos don't care what happens in Hawaii.
Perhaps you have heard of the Harp Seal that is found up North. They are born with brilliant white fur, which changes to gray as they mature, Anyway, the Canadians, club them to death to get the fur. They don't use guns to avoid holes in the pelts - they just club 'em a few times in the head.
Anyway an adult Harp Seals waddles into a Canadian bar one day, climbs up on a stool and waits patiently for the bartender. After a few seconds the man tending bars walks up to the seal and asks him what he'll have. The seal said, in reply "anything but a Canadian Club"!!!!!!!!!
Location: not sure, but there's a hell of a lot of water around here!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Rossi
I don't really know, but I suspect when this story gets out, it will attract a lot of attention from people who, if their past record is any indication, will soon be moving to close the beach to all humans.
So, by your logic, if a monk seal beaches itself on Waikiki, or Ka'anapali Beach, the government will see to it that the beach is closed to the public? Aint gonna happen. Why don't you just get to the point, and interject your political agenda?
This newsflash from RR Broadcasting........... "As expected, we find the entire parking lot at Ala Moana roped off again this fine Fathers Day morning, as more and more Monk seals are calling it home. As you know, it all started only a few years ago, at Ala Moana beach park, when a lone Monk seal decided to haul out for a few hours for a bit of a rest. The "Eco Police' were quickly on the scene, roping off the area, and threatening anyone who came within a quarter mile of the sleeping seal with banishment. Needless to say, one thing quickly led to another, the lazy seal no doubt informed its buddies of this 'great' spot, and soon the beach was filled with the blubbery mammals. I suspect that soon the seals will be working their way onto beachfront porches from Port Lock to Kohala, and, God forbid, maybe into your basement!!!... Where it will end, we just don't know..........Back to you Rush"
Last edited by Jungjohann; 06-16-2013 at 01:57 AM..
So, by your logic, if a monk seal beaches itself on Waikiki, or Ka'anapali Beach, the government will see to it that the beach is closed to the public? Aint gonna happen. Why don't you just get to the point, and interject your political agenda?
If you don't have any thing constructive to add, why don't you just take a long walk on a short beach. clear your head and come back with a cogent thought to present.
Last edited by Robin Rossi; 06-16-2013 at 02:09 AM..
I think Jeffington is referring to the ole slippery slope that we have all heard so much about. You know, first a Monk Seal poops on your lanai and then everyone is forced to move up to Mauna Kea.
I think Jeffington is referring to the ole slippery slope that we have all heard so much about. You know, first a Monk Seal poops on your lanai and then everyone is forced to move up to Mauna Kea.
If you don't have any thing constructive to add, why don't you just take a long walk on a short beach. clear your head and come back with a cogent thought to present.
BTW, re: continued references to Jeffington, I think Einstein said that Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result, and that seems to sum your actions up to a "T".
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