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That's a question the island state hopes it won't have to answer as it attempts to stave off an invasion by the coconut rhinoceros beetle, an unwanted visitor that's already done extensive damage on the U.S. Pacific territory of Guam.
Rats came on the canoes with the first Hawaiians, and they were devastating to the natural ecosystem, so this isn't a new problem.
Matter of fact, it could be argued that the most invasive pest ever introduced to the islands was mankind. Archaeologists tell us that fully 1/3 of the native species had become extinct before Captain Cook arrived.
Rats came on the canoes with the first Hawaiians, and they were devastating to the natural ecosystem, so this isn't a new problem.
Matter of fact, it could be argued that the most invasive pest ever introduced to the islands was mankind. Archaeologists tell us that fully 1/3 of the native species had become extinct before Captain Cook arrived.
I dont disagree uncle about man kind, but were did you get your info about 1/3? Im interested. Further, it can get comfortable to say "well my neighbor is violent to justify violence, and never do anything to change". (general statement not personal uncle)
Not only did the Polynesians introduce the Pacific Rat - they brought pigs which changed plant structure. Of course, the Polynesians hunted many birds to extinction.
Not only did the Polynesians introduce the Pacific Rat - they brought pigs which changed plant structure. Of course, the Polynesians hunted many birds to extinction.
But at the same time, For about a thousand years the Polynesians lived and thrived on these islands with sustainable practices. Yes there were detrimental effects on the land, etc. as there are anywhere men go to live, but they were minimal as compared to what western civilization has wrought in the last 200+ years. Pigs? i could be wrong but i believe tame pigs were introduced by outsiders? Wild pig was native?
I do want to tell you that i respect and understand what your saying. We are all human with the ability to heal and kill. But like i said to uncle OpenD is it can get comfortable to comeup with excuses justify current actions.
Also please forgive me, i have a character defect, i have a tendacy to believe that im more powerful then i am to create change, mostly this is because i can get to passionate.
Last edited by hawaiian by heart; 02-11-2014 at 03:56 PM..
Pigs are not native to Hawaii. That would be a heck of a swim otherwise.
Well to be technical everything was brought to Hawai'i except some birds and flowers. I believe what your saying is this? The feral pig is also a major threat to Hawaii’s natural ecology. Feral pigs that were originally released or escaped from farms have been breeding in the wild and creating a large population of wild pigs in Hawaii. They have major impacts on the ecology because they are very destructive of plants and habitat and lack predators. Their burrowing patterns also destroy bird nesting grounds and lead to erosion. Which goes to my point of irresponsibility.
The Polynesians brought one kind of pig and one kind of rat to Hawai'i. Cook brought a different kind of pig and different kind of rat. They all got loose and wreaked havoc in an environment with no natural predators and lots of food supply.
My point is simply that nobody is any more or less to blame than any other. The original Hawaiians hunted certain species of birds into extinction because they didn't have the big picture on the effect their actions were causing.
People are people, no matter where you go, or when. We all laugh, love, do murder, make war. To think that the Polynesians who first settled Hawai'i were some other kind of human beings than us is delusional. They didn't understand the cause and effect of many of their actions because they attributed so much of what they observed in nature to being caused by the gods. The "sustainability" of their lifestyle had a lot to do with the fact that they were a stone-age culture, and had limited ability to alter their environment except by the combined effect of a large population effecting lots of small changes.
I have no doubt whatsoever that if the "pre-contact" Hawaiians had access to Caterpillar D-9s, they would have completely altered the islands to suit their wants and wishes at the time. I mean, look at what happened in the early 1800s when royalty decided to trade sandlewood for gold... in just a few decades the sandlewood forests were wiped out.
I believe in conservation, and in creating reserves of preserved raw nature, for future generations to enjoy and be educated by. But I think it is a mistake to try to invoke a fairytale past that never was as a justification for doing so. We should do it because it's the right thing to do for our descendants.
Your quote:My point is simply that nobody is any more or less to blame than any other. The original Hawaiians hunted certain species of birds into extinction because they didn't have the big picture on the effect their actions were causing. end quote:
Your point uncle? See when you say stuff like the above, to me its just an rationalization or justification to continue things as they are. You say no one is anymore less or more to blame? Let history judge. The U.S. government says 377 species native to Hawaii are endangered. Since European contact (1778), 28 bird species, 78 Snails taxa, Insects 74 taxa, 97 plant taxa have gone extinct. We will never know all of the species that have gone extinct in Hawaii's recent history. To justify that because others huntted birds for feathers and food and a few bird species became extinct. That the amount of destruction caused by westerners is thus justified and the amount of responsibility is void. Please let me finsh before you comment.
Your quote: I have no doubt whatsoever that if the "pre-contact" Hawaiians had access to Caterpillar D-9s, they would have completely altered the islands to suit their wants and wishes at the time. I mean, look at what happened in the early 1800s when royalty decided to trade sandlewood for gold... in just a few decades the sandlewood forests were wiped out. End quote:
I seriously doubt that, the ancient hawaiians were much like the native american indians in there spiritual beliefs about the aina. All the things you talk about are changes caused by european influence. You forget uncle that in alot of ways for the times the native americans and ancient hawaiians were more advanced then there european brothers, in understanding of the earth, navagation, medication etc.
I agree with you that everyone has the ability to heal or kill, thats what being human is. In that aspect no one is better or worse.
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Further, it can get comfortable to say "well my neighbor is violent to justify violence, and never do anything to change". (general statement not personal uncle)
