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Yes, "can be," but population on the islands in 1779 is estimated to be up to 400,000. (There are other sources who say it might have been twice this, I know.) That would be 400,000 (or 800,000, if you must) people who were already used to being self-sufficient, and who were organized to be self-sufficient.
The current resident population is something like 1,275,000. And as you know, we are not self-sufficient (or only a few are even close -- think gasoline, for instance, and how much the currently "self-sufficient" depend on that).
If you read the papers, you know that even basic organization in Hawaii is akin to herding cats. I wouldn't count us out, we certainly have resources. I just think it would be an ugly battle to sort out the plans, the proposals, the leadership, the entitlements, and the day-to-day tasks that were a given 230 years ago.
Last edited by whynot?; 10-16-2008 at 11:04 AM..
Reason: punctuation
where will they get their Gas, medical supplies, toilet paper, etc, without shipments? it is not only about food-local pharmacies have NOTHING, it is all shipped. In Capitain Cook's time life expectancy was 30 years-for that reason exactly. if you got sick, you died.
whynot nailed it. Eventually, things would stabilize, but probably there would be terrible consequences as it was worked out.
Most people here wouldn't know how to fish, farm, hunt pigs without a lot of learning curve. Desperation would make people act rashly instead of with calm organization.
Often, with disasters, the biggest danger after initial survival, is the other people and/or lack of initiative. Look at Katrina. People died waiting for help, or suffered in large holding camps. Some people got out on their own, built rafts, scrounged up food, etc. But many were dependent on a leader/authoritarian type of existence, and didn't know what to do on their own.
Even a self sufficient society takes time to be put together. You don't put seeds in the ground in the morning and get dinner the next day.
There is a whole infrastructure required for farming and ranching. Folks have been taking all the farmland and ranchland and selling it to developers for the past three or four decades so a lot of it is covered in houses now. Hard to farm when there is a house in the way.
Also, after growing your crop you need someone to help harvest and then some place to sell the crop to. Many farmers here have to grow, harvest, process, pack and deliver their produce.
would make people act rashly instead of with calm organization.
Often, with disasters, the biggest danger after initial survival, is the other people and/or lack of initiative. Look at Katrina. People died waiting for help, or suffered in large holding camps. Some people got out on their own, built rafts, scrounged up food, etc. But many were dependent on a leader/authoritarian type of existence, and didn't know what to do on their own.
Location: Big Island- Hawaii, AK, WA where the whales are!
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How much of a reality do you really see this happening to islands? I appreciate the sarcasm put forth made me laugh creating island colation -but realized this may be an issue to people of islands?
I foresee myself as hunter gather personalty but you are talking a possible future for islands anymore than mainland? Come on Red Hill has whole Pafic fleet desiel and jet fuel. Been there worked on it and been declassified for 10 yrs or more, not annoucing anything. But do see if barges don't come it would be an upheavel to society. This would happen on mainland as much as there though right? Although smaller place to contain. At least you would stay warm. Don't want to go back to Capt Cook or before time island days or anyone else no matter what they say. The wealthy will always come.... really do you see this as a possibility for islands?
Ok Ok I was just playing the devils advocate lol..yes there would be dire consequences to the islands being cut off from the mainland...it would be a completely unstable situation for a long time, and the worst in people would come out for sure, bringing theft, murder and other things (just think about almost any major disaster that has happened, like New Orleans). It would be difficult to put it mildly, but the human race seems to always find a way, don't they? We would eventually figure out how to survive, maybe even thrive.....already Hawaii uses many alternative energy sources such as wind power and solar power (probably more so than the mainland) and I'm sure someone would figure out an alternative fuel source as well. Honestly though, Hawaii is never going to be completely cut off from the mainland...its not like the islands are going to go back to being "undiscovered," and though there are undoubtably going to be difficult times for everyone, Hawaii and mainland, we are also a people that eventually come together in tough times (look at 9-11), when one would think it the most unlikely, to help one another. But to make things smoother, we need to be concentrating on finding alternative sources of energy, fuel, etc. that can ease the burdens we are currently facing, and to make the above situations even more unlikely to happen.
There's quite a group here on Maui working towards sustainability. Not because we expect an eminent disaster, but because local sustainability just plain makes more sense. We are working to encourage governmental progress, but also strongly concentrating on individual sustainability.
Gardens - personal, community, school
Alternative energy - wind, solar
Conservation - reducing waste, reusing, recycling
Shared resources - local resources instead of remote, sharing our excess in trade for someone else's
Alternative energy generation like solar and wind is great, but it still requires outside (off island) connections. Not only is the equipment not produced here, but systems require maintenance, parts, and replacement.
If the islands ever had to go fully self-contained, solar panels and wind farms wouldn't last all that long. My solar water heater system still needs electricity to pump the water from the panels to tank and back again. The water actually gets too hot, and has to be cooled by being circulated. The wind mills here feed into the electrical grid, but without the imported fuel that powers the large island systems, no more grid.
Solar and wind power would take on new meaning - sun dried foods, sunshine on your crops, wind on sail for offshore fishing...
This kind of discussion is interesting, and hopefully not doom-sounding. It's good to be physically prepared for whatever we can anticipate, and then be mentally prepared to deal with whatever happens.
That's just life, whether it's the loss of loved ones or a job, or a natural disaster, or a downturn in the economy. Don't waste too much time bemoaning the circumstance or waiting for someone else. Get your family and emergency kit into the car or boat and GO.
There is a whole infrastructure required for farming and ranching. Folks have been taking all the farmland and ranchland and selling it to developers for the past three or four decades so a lot of it is covered in houses now. Hard to farm when there is a house in the way.----
They will be empty, just burn them down, clear and plant...
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