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Easy approvals don't happen everywhere. Some states are very high on the denial scale. There was a judge in W. VA. finally removed because he approved everyone. Yes, there is too much fraud. It seems too many undeserving are approved, the deserving too often denied and enduring years of wait. I'm certain many of the undeserving must have connections within their local system and know how to work it.
i agree. I lurk on a number of internet forums populated with people who are on ssdi because they cant get along with people or cant take orders from authority figures -- and people who have aches and pains that supposedly prevent them from working but who post constantly about going shopping, etc every day.
There are also posts about doctor-shopping on these forums. Apparently it's not that difficult to find a doctor who, for a nice fee, will certify someone as too disabled to work.
Awhile back there was an article about a huge number of workers in their late 50's early 60's filing for SSD because they got laid off and lost their jobs.
The article made it sound like they thought they had the option of collecting unemployment or drawing early SS by going the " disability" route.
The application process is not based on common sense. It is a complex medical legal evaluation. Those that are severely disabled often have the medical evidence hidden within their mountain of documentation, and they assume that their approval should be obvious. Someone that is savvy, and not severely disabled, can do an excellent job supplying the correct information and be approved inappropriately. There are safeguards in place to make sure the deserving are approved, and the undeserving are denied, but still...
I live in SoCal, where we have a large population of homeless people. Many of those with the most severe psychiatric conditions do not receive SSI or SSDI benefits. This is in part because they are unable to advocate for themselves, make it to scheduled doc appointments, follow through on SS deadlines, etc. And the very fact that they're (generally) noncompliant about following a treatment plan, will mean a denial.
I personally have seen more abuse come from those applying for SSI. By virtue of how SS determines if a person should be able to adapt to their disability, a person without a high school education, that doesn't speak English, that has no work experience, etc., has a much easier time receiving approval than someone applying for SSDI, that is less inclined to apply if they made a good wage or salary.
I am on SSDI, and I'm active on a site that's includes a forum on SSI/SSDI approval. Those with severe psych disorders are incredibly difficult to interact with. They are not attempting to work the system, and more often than not, they give up. Once in a while a new poster will come along trying to "work the system" and it's generally easy to spot them, by their questions. They are not given help...
The rule with SSI/SSDI, is that you will be denied if you're working. For someone applying for SSDI, that means if they don't have substantial personal financial resources of family that will support them, they will work if at all possible. They still have a disability, but if they're facing homelessness, they will still attempt to work. It seems like a very cruel game of chicken SS makes SSDI applicants (inparticular) play. And, over the years I've met people that were fighting a protracted battle for SSDI, and ended up homeless for several months, to several years. Someone applying for SSI might also be facing these same issues, but some others are collecting a bevy of other entitlements, and there is no hardship to wait out a decision.
There are many people in our society that look down upon those that receive any disability benefits. I truly have no idea what the percentage is of those collecting, that are exaggerating or lying is. It's the same with food stamps, there is no question that fraud is a major issue. (Why aren't photos required on their EBT cards???) I do believe many with major psych disorders will claim a physical disability because they're embarrassed. If someone has a close relationship with someone claiming a disability and then regularly engaging in behavior that exceeds their purported abilities, than that person should make a SS fraud claim. If someone reports that a neighbor with a bad back is shoveling snow everyday, SS can check if they are in fact disabled due to their back, or instead a psych disorder.
I absolutely believe there is a need for SSI, btw, even though much of what I wrote seems like I have a bias against it. And just because someone worked for 30 years that has a mild disability, doesn't make them anymore deserving of SSDI than a 26 year old who becomes severely disabled after working for 10 years. There are NO easy answers.
I have two pieces of advice for those that are not disabled and are working: 1) Never, EVER work under the table. 2) Buy long term disability insurance and encourage your family members to do so as well if your/their employer doesn't provide one. (If you live in a state that has short term disability insurance: CA, NJ, NY, HI, RI file a timely claim if you suffer a serious injury that may keep you from being able to return to work.) Just keep in mind, that there are military vets that are rated out at 100% disabled and yet they are denied SSDI, there are thousands that die waiting for SSI/SSDI approval every year, and because of the way attorneys are paid--there is an incentive to draw out the approval process on their end as well.
Awhile back there was an article about a huge number of workers in their late 50's early 60's filing for SSD because they got laid off and lost their jobs.
The article made it sound like they thought they had the option of collecting unemployment or drawing early SS by going the " disability" route.
DISGUSTING !
The threshold for approval is lowered at age 50 and then again at 55, but a person must still have a severe disability in order to qualify.
Disability should not ever be considered as if it's an unemployment benefit, but as workers age health problems increase and their ability to adapt to their disability decreases, along with their chance of being hired.
One of my former coworkers doc's attempted to get him to retire early due to health concerns. He was in his early 50's at the time, and was making decent money--around 70k. He had severe narcolepsy along with hypertension and diabetes, and I'm other issues I'm forgetting. He had no business commuting, but he did. He eventually had a horrific car accident and required a few surgeries. Everyone assumed he would receive a quick approval, but it took him turning 55 before being approved. SS requires that an applicant is unable to perform past work, and once that's proven, any "other" work that a person's education and physical abilities would allow them to perform (based upon the D.O.T. From 1986 to be specific.)
The problem with people applying that aren't severely disabled, is even if they're appropriately denied, it further taxes an already overburdened system, causing greater and greater delays.
The few forums on which I lurk are filled with people who are high-functioning and even very intelligent but who claim to be unable to work, mostly due to emotional disturbances (usually being unable to deal with people and/or unable to show up on time or follow orders).
Others, including some husband-wife couples, claim to have arthritis or other physical conditions severe enough to keep them from working and no one criticizes them when they post, day after day, about how they walked for hours while shopping or lifted heavy materials while remodeling their homes.
I lurk on only 2-3 forums and I'm not exaggerating when I say that I've seen at least 55-60 people posting regularly about being on SSDI/SSI. I'm sure none of them is getting rich on SSDI/SSI but all of them are able to sit at home on their computers 24/7 while collecting their checks. And the sense of entitlement is very pervasive throughout. Some of them, in their 40's, have never worked at all -- they've been collecting benefits since leaving high school.
I'm sure there are people who genuinely need SSDI/SSI, but seeing how many people are just using the system is enough to make me feel there should be a requirement that all recipients must work in some capacity.
I listened to the NPR story about this - this last weekend.
It was actually quite compelling, and while the intial hypothesis seemed to be that people were (potentially fraudently) looking at disability as an alternative to unemployment, the conclusion that the investigation came to was much less black and white.
If you are a 56 year old worker, in poor physical health, with no secondary education, and you lose your long time job (for whatever reason, the plant downsized, your back doesn't let you stand anymore) - what realistically are you going to replace that with?
Not everone lives in a large city with lots of different work opportunitites.
This one doctor basically said he interprets his patients lack of education and training/skills as a disability. I know that's not initially how the program was intended, but I don't know that I disagree with him.
It also said the AVERAGE disability benefit is $1000 a month.
We're not talking about high earning lawyers getting a multi-thousand/month payout.
We're talking about median income people (making 40K-50K in a plant somewhere) learning to live on 1K a month because they can't find other work..
I don't begrudge them that.
They interviewed a woman with bad back problems. She had disability - she used to work at a chicken plant. The interviewer asked her if there was any other job she thought she could do (like a dream job!). She couldn't come up with one. Finally, at the end of the interviewer the woman says, "Maybe I could sit like at the SS office and go through paperwork - looking for cheaters!".
The interviewer clearly stops for a minute - and then asks for clarification. This woman with back problems wants to work for SS office -- because its the only job she's ever seen where someone SITS DOWN.
The interviewer is incredulous - and then starts looking around the small/poor town. Every job in town that she sees is MANUAL LABOR. Fast food = standing. Retail clerk = standing/lifting. Plant work = standing/lifting.
The interviewer finally concedes that there may be places in America where there are no real "paperwork" jobs, where they see those on TV and just laugh .. "Imagine, paying someone to sit at a table all day long!".
Some people don't seem to be able to imagine how truly awful being very poor and very uneducated in this country is - and how little opportunities you have if something goes terribly wrong.
There was a piece on CNBC today. About people on disability. In one county where 1/4 of the wage earning population is on disability. Most made minimum wage or slightly higher before going on disability - and wound up much better off after going on disability than before going on disability (because they got medical benefits too). When you pay people more to work than not work - they won't work. Robyn
I work in a hospital, on an inpatient psych unit and the abuse of this is amazing. My sister is on this and she can work, she just annoyed and harrassed her Dr enough to get it.
There was a piece on CNBC today. About people on disability. In one county where 1/4 of the wage earning population is on disability. Most made minimum wage or slightly higher before going on disability - and wound up much better off after going on disability than before going on disability (because they got medical benefits too). When you pay people more to work than not work - they won't work. Robyn
Not to detract from your point, Robyn. But I also see this as argument for universal health insurance coverage. Perhaps, if these people had decent health insurance, they'd be less motivated to seek social security disability. With UHI, they'd be working and contributing something to the economy.
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