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Anyone else here suffer from these damned Pre-Vent/Pre-Atrial contractions? If so, how do they manifest themselves in you?
I know exactly when they are happening with me because, no matter what sort of level of relaxation or happiness I'm in, or even when I'm v. sleepy, I'm in, I immediately feel a high level of... (best descriptor...) anxiety in my central chest region. It's like my chest is intensely "worrying", which is, of course, just silly! But it then also effectively prevents me from laying down and sleeping or even relaxing. A real Pain in the Butt, so to speak.
It's quite odd, esp. since I really do not have anything to especially be anxious about most of the time, except possibly having too many PV/PA-Cs. It's definitely a physiological response because I then check my pulse, and will always feel that cardiac irregularity, often as a series of sort of blips or bubble feeling in my throat, and as long as they continue, I will feel that way. I have felt missing at least 3 or 4 heart beats in a row, BTW... Hmmm... What if those beats stop altogether? Ouchy! Prob'ly won't have much time to worry then though, huh??
My BP is not necessarily high, nor is my heart rate. Usually it's about 130/85, @ 65 - 72 bpms.
The solution seems to be for me to take an Atavan type of sedative (≈ 0.5mg is all) and wait it out for about 1/2 hour. Once, two months ago, the condition resolved itself into an overnight case of a-fib, first time in my life that I know of. (In the cardiac unit at my local hospital, I was told that this is by no means unusual in guys in my condition or age...) A-fib also, of course, generates that awful anxiety feeling, which it seems stems from the heart. Possibly it releases some sort of messenger molecule to the body?
I've been told, and I've also read many times now, that PA/PVCs are essentially harmless in the moment, that they just represent a transient blip. My age is 64, I'm overweight and diabetic, both because of extreme arthritic degeneration disease for well over 25 yrs. coupled with the use of steroids for all of that time.
I'm thus forced to be sedentary, so I suspect my ol' heart is getting biochemically tired, and or it's conductivity is being reduced. (even slow water-walking for 1/2 h will put me and my aching joints into bed for the next day or two..).
I have no qualms that this is exactly how I'm gonna die, from a stroke (Tho' I do take those 81mg aspirins) or a really bad V-fib event (which is what killed my then-young 56 yr old) older brother. Otherwise, no such problems in my entire family, both sides.
Anyhow, it's a relentless nasty-bee-atch, makes me miserable, and I'd love to know if any of you have anything like these same distressing feelings.
I'm not doc but I had Atrial Fib for over 20 years and what you describe sounds like A Fib.
This may be of interest to you----------http://www.afibbers.org/index.htm
Anybody try the olive leaf extract yet? I've not had a problem in years after I started taking it and it does so many other good things for you too, like bolster your immune system before the cold and flu season starts. It is anti-fungal, anti-bacterial, and anti-inflammatory and has some blood sugar lowering properties. From: Olive Leaf | Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center
Quote:
A major component of olive leaf, oleuropein, has antioxidant properties (1). Because of its hypoglycemic effects, the leaf extract can induce insulin release and improve peripheral uptake of glucose(2). Further, the leaf extracts demonstrated antimicrobial properties (3), anti-HIV (4), and anticancer (13) (14) (15) (18) (19) properties. Animal studies showed antiarrhythmic, spasmolytic, diuretic (5), antihypertensive (6), analgesic (20) (21), and cholesterol lowering (7) effects.
Yep, I also get them quite frequently. I've been to the cardiologist and have had full workups, even ultrasounds, and they're all normal. Even though the doctor tries to reassure me that all is well, and that the electrical impulses from my brain get confused, it STILL doesn't help when I get them. I get feelings of instant dread, have to catch my breath, and I grab my chest (like that's going to help).
Sometimes when I get them, I notice that my legs are folded, like if I'm sitting on the couch or have my legs crossed. I straighten out my legs and it helps a bit, I guess to get blood flow back. I hate the palpitations though, it is hard to focus when you feel like you're gonna die any second.
I get em all the time! I found mine were from having a hole in my heart I didn't know about and Mitral Valve Prolapse. You can bear down like you're having a bowel movement and that will trigger your vagus nerve (sp?) and should stop them or at least help. They can also be triggered by dehydration so drink a lot of water!
I'm glad I happened on this thread! I started getting PVCs during my pregnancy last year. I still get them but they are few and far between. I think it's interesting that I don't get the anxiety that you all describe. I just feel like, it's hard to describe, but kind of like there's a fish flopping around in my chest. I wonder if it has anything to do with me knowing from the very first time what exactly was going on? But you also know and yet have that anxiety. It must be terrible. I wish I knew if they were going to go away. I guess at this point probably not. It was a pretty traumatic pregnancy so maybe some of my "wiring" got messed up? I also gained a lot more fluid than normal because of my daughter's issues and I wonder if that put extra pressure on my heart. Anyway, regardless of why it happened they're here now, perhaps to stay.
Since I wrote the OP lsat year, my condition has generally worsened, in terms of frequency mostly. as well, I've now gone into a-fibrillation several times. Most recently was last Friday evening. I attended our local Labor Day weekend County Fair, and walked around quite a bit, which is unusual for me given my general arthritic condition. Anyhow, I also had a vendor's Fish & Chips, (bloody "offal", and that's not necessarily a typo, but you know what happens when you end up "starving", and there's the odor of hot animal grease in the air.......). Anyhow, I watched the kid pull a piece of frozen fish out of their little freezer and drop it into v. hot oil where it cooked for at least 10 minutes, but then he also dished me up a big ol' dollop of really tepid tartar sauce out of a bowl that was sitting in the hot afternoon sun. End result? Take a guess!
Later, when I got home & went to bed with some beginning PACs flipping in my chest, I did get to sleep. But then, at about 1:00am, I woke up with staggering stomach pains and proceded to "evacuate" my body via any and all available orifices (I think I'd have used my tear ducts if it possibly could have been done...) and essentially had the worst case of food poisoning I've ever experienced. Turns out some other fish eaters at the Fair had the exact same problem.
But as well, this triggered a massive attack of PACs at about 1:30a, which then dissolved "pleasantly" into a lovely 40h long a-fib event. Typical BPs ranged from 100/55, HR of 145, up to BP/HR of 155/105-55. All over the map, and very unsettling I can tell you!
I tried literally everything I could think of: an Rx of 1080mg Pottassium supplement, B vitamins (which have helped in the past); anti-histamines, 0.5 to 2 mg of Lorazepam/Atavan, then some 25 and later, 50 mg of Metopralol, 6.25 and later, 12.5mg Carvedilol, 20mg of Lisinopril when my BP was too high (my poor liver must have been having fits "What's he taking now, Phil? What antitoxins should we break out down here next?"" [Note: Phil is the guy in your brain who advises the body what you, the idiot, is trying in desperation next!].
I toyed with going down to the ER, but I figured they'd just lash me down, wire me up, and then shoot me up with some OTHER new med, or worse: they've always threatened to stop my heart and then shock it back into proper rhythm, a little stunt I want no part of. Just yet anyhow.
Then they'd also proceed to give me a stern piece of their minds if they found out what I'd been trial-dosing myself with, since a few months ago I managed to get my HR down to a staggeringly low 40 bpm, and my BP itself down to 90/55. My EMT son later said it was a miracle my heart didn't just lay down and stop!
After that unendurable 40h, when I finally dozed off with my wife driving us over to Seattle, I woke up in the car in normal sinus rhythm! I'd just auto-converted in my sleep! This is also what I've always done, and yet it only happens, apparently, in about 10% of the victims of PAC/PVCs. Sadly this ability gets less prevalent as we age, so I can't count on it in the future, necessarily.
I do need to find out what makes this biochemical imbalance, that is for sure. I'll for sure try the olive lef extract, if I can find it locally. Have not seen it, but then again, it's hardly something I've looked for! Ditto for the mg-citrate, though I do already take Cal-Mag. A real live slightly greenish banana seems to help as well; it may have something going for it besides the potassium content!
gypsychic, I sympathize with your issues with red wine, chocolate, and alcohol in general. Even if I now drink a light beer in the mid-afternoon, it seems I'm then doomed to episodes for at least 4 - 6 hours of random trigeminal PACs (most every third beat missed. What a treat!) about 2 - 4 hours later, just when I;m thinking of getting ready for bed. And so, not even minimal tastings of my favorite expensive Bourbons! Drat!
Anyone else having similar cardio-fun on the Labor Day weekend? All of this increased cardiac activity certainly makes me think it's unlikely I'll make it to my upcoming 65th b-day in November!!
_______________________________________________
BTW: this on Trigeminal or Bi-Geminal arrhythmias:
"When it refers to ECG activity it means a rhythm in which every 3rd (tri-) beat is ectopic (originating from someplace other than the sinus node). When used without qualifaction it is understood to mean trigeminal PVCs (premature ventricular contractions).
It is also possible to have trigeminal PACs (premature atrial contractions) or PJCs (premature junctional contractions).
Trigeminal PVCs can be a sign of cardiac ischemia (lack of oxygen to the heart), they are caused by an irritated area of the ventricles (bottom half of the heart). PVCs often do not perfuse (cause a pulse beat) and so frequent PVCs can cause a reduced pulse rate even when your heart rate is normal.
Source(s):
I am a ECG monitor tech with 3 years of experience in a level 1 trauma center"
Since I wrote the OP lsat year, my condition has generally worsened, in terms of frequency mostly. as well, I've now gone into a-fibrillation several times. Most recently was last Friday evening. I attended our local Labor Day weekend County Fair, and walked around quite a bit, which is unusual for me given my general arthritic condition. Anyhow, I also had a vendor's Fish & Chips, (bloody "offal", and that's not necessarily a typo, but you know what happens when you end up "starving", and there's the odor of hot animal grease in the air.......). Anyhow, I watched the kid pull a piece of frozen fish out of their little freezer and drop it into v. hot oil where it cooked for at least 10 minutes, but then he also dished me up a big ol' dollop of really tepid tartar sauce out of a bowl that was sitting in the hot afternoon sun. End result? Take a guess!
Later, when I got home & went to bed with some beginning PACs flipping in my chest, I did get to sleep. But then, at about 1:00am, I woke up with staggering stomach pains and proceded to "evacuate" my body via any and all available orifices (I think I'd have used my tear ducts if it possibly could have been done...) and essentially had the worst case of food poisoning I've ever experienced. Turns out some other fish eaters at the Fair had the exact same problem.
But as well, this triggered a massive attack of PACs at about 1:30a, which then dissolved "pleasantly" into a lovely 40h long a-fib event. Typical BPs ranged from 100/55, HR of 145, up to BP/HR of 155/105-55. All over the map, and very unsettling I can tell you!
I tried literally everything I could think of: an Rx of 1080mg Pottassium supplement, B vitamins (which have helped in the past); anti-histamines, 0.5 to 2 mg of Lorazepam/Atavan, then some 25 and later, 50 mg of Metopralol, 6.25 and later, 12.5mg Carvedilol, 20mg of Lisinopril when my BP was too high (my poor liver must have been having fits "What's he taking now, Phil? What antitoxins should we break out down here next?"" [Note: Phil is the guy in your brain who advises the body what you, the idiot, is trying in desperation next!].
I toyed with going down to the ER, but I figured they'd just lash me down, wire me up, and then shoot me up with some OTHER new med, or worse: they've always threatened to stop my heart and then shock it back into proper rhythm, a little stunt I want no part of. Just yet anyhow.
Then they'd also proceed to give me a stern piece of their minds if they found out what I'd been trial-dosing myself with, since a few months ago I managed to get my HR down to a staggeringly low 40 bpm, and my BP itself down to 90/55. My EMT son later said it was a miracle my heart didn't just lay down and stop!
After that unendurable 40h, when I finally dozed off with my wife driving us over to Seattle, I woke up in the car in normal sinus rhythm! I'd just auto-converted in my sleep! This is also what I've always done, and yet it only happens, apparently, in about 10% of the victims of PAC/PVCs. Sadly this ability gets less prevalent as we age, so I can't count on it in the future, necessarily.
I do need to find out what makes this biochemical imbalance, that is for sure. I'll for sure try the olive lef extract, if I can find it locally. Have not seen it, but then again, it's hardly something I've looked for! Ditto for the mg-citrate, though I do already take Cal-Mag. A real live slightly greenish banana seems to help as well; it may have something going for it besides the potassium content!
gypsychic, I sympathize with your issues with red wine, chocolate, and alcohol in general. Even if I now drink a light beer in the mid-afternoon, it seems I'm then doomed to episodes for at least 4 - 6 hours of random trigeminal PACs (most every third beat missed. What a treat!) about 2 - 4 hours later, just when I;m thinking of getting ready for bed. And so, not even minimal tastings of my favorite expensive Bourbons! Drat!
Anyone else having similar cardio-fun on the Labor Day weekend? All of this increased cardiac activity certainly makes me think it's unlikely I'll make it to my upcoming 65th b-day in November!!
_______________________________________________
BTW: this on Trigeminal or Bi-Geminal arrhythmias:
"When it refers to ECG activity it means a rhythm in which every 3rd (tri-) beat is ectopic (originating from someplace other than the sinus node). When used without qualifaction it is understood to mean trigeminal PVCs (premature ventricular contractions).
It is also possible to have trigeminal PACs (premature atrial contractions) or PJCs (premature junctional contractions).
Trigeminal PVCs can be a sign of cardiac ischemia (lack of oxygen to the heart), they are caused by an irritated area of the ventricles (bottom half of the heart). PVCs often do not perfuse (cause a pulse beat) and so frequent PVCs can cause a reduced pulse rate even when your heart rate is normal.
Source(s):
I am a ECG monitor tech with 3 years of experience in a level 1 trauma center"
And here I thought, at m,y age, I'd be worrying about how best to invest all my huge stash of retirement gold bars!
Sorry to hear of your troubles, Rifleman. Since I last posted I have been diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes which I believe is at least partly responsible for my intermittent PVCs. I have also figured out that some of my problems are digestive in nature. I can go a couple months with nothing, then all of a sudden they seem to come out of nowhere and last off and on for a couple months. I have been having them for about two months, yesterday kind of bad, then today - NOTHING (to my relief!) I just can't figure it out. But the good news is.... I haven't dropped dead yet or anything that serious. I am just going to live my life the best I can, I do watch my diet but I am going to enjoy a glass or two of wine (supposed to be actually GOOD for diabetics and the heart) and tell myself - "c'est la vie" and what will be will be. Let's all agree we won't worry about it too much. Too many times they can't find a cause anyway so let's live our lives the best we can, and to the fullest we can because that is really all we can do, anyway.
Yikes rifleman, you've been thru the mill. I sure hope all this straightens out for you. A couple of things: first I need to tell you that it's not a good idea to take a potassium(K+) supplement as you can easily OD on the stuff and guess what the symptoms are? You guessed it--exactly what you had. I know b/c one time I went on the Atkins induction diet with really low carbs and it tends to make me shaky so I took some K+ and didn't really feel any better, but then my blood pressure spiked to a dangerous level and my heart started beating off kilter. It was really bad and I only found out later about the K+ connection.
You can get the olive leaf extract online. Amazon usually has good prices but go for quality too. I use the Gaia brand, which is decent.
The one thing that I have found will set mine off every time is the over consumption of sugary foods and I really just need to avoid them altogether. I think others have said the same thing so you might want to watch and see what happens when you over indulge. (If you do)
Yikes rifleman, you've been thru the mill. I sure hope all this straightens out for you. A couple of things: first I need to tell you that it's not a good idea to take a potassium(K+) supplement as you can easily OD on the stuff and guess what the symptoms are? You guessed it--exactly what you had. I know b/c one time I went on the Atkins induction diet with really low carbs and it tends to make me shaky so I took some K+ and didn't really feel any better, but then my blood pressure spiked to a dangerous level and my heart started beating off kilter. It was really bad and I only found out later about the K+ connection.
You can get the olive leaf extract online. Amazon usually has good prices but go for quality too. I use the Gaia brand, which is decent.
The one thing that I have found will set mine off every time is the over consumption of sugary foods and I really just need to avoid them altogether. I think others have said the same thing so you might want to watch and see what happens when you over indulge. (If you do)
Thanks for reminding me of the olive leaf extract. I will add that to my shopping list of supplements (yikes, I spend a fortune on stuff every month; figure "can't hurt, might help". So stepka, is the extract in a liquid or capsule form?
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I wish I knew if they were going to go away. I guess at this point probably not. It was a pretty traumatic pregnancy so maybe some of my "wiring" got messed up? I also gained a lot more fluid than normal because of my daughter's issues and I wonder if that put extra pressure on my heart. Anyway, regardless of why it happened they're here now, perhaps to stay.
The saga continues...
I am just going to live my life the best I can, I do watch my diet but I am going to enjoy a glass or two of wine (supposed to be actually GOOD for diabetics and the heart) and tell myself - "c'est la vie" and what will be will be. Let's all agree we won't worry about it too much. Too many times they can't find a cause anyway so let's live our lives the best we can, and to the fullest we can because that is really all we can do, anyway.
