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The reason for this is obvious. People realize the inescapable truth: that you really cannot change your gender. You are what reality says you are, and that is defined by your plumbing. And always will be, regardless of any physical mutilation applied to your body.
In any discussion like this its important not to conflate sex and gender. Sex is what is between your legs while gender is what is between your ears.
I read a study recently that found that a number of people who seek sexual reassignment surgery (SRS) are actually nonbinary but they think changing their sex will help them to assimilate in society better when expressing their gender.
They could instead seek to be more comfortable expressing their gender - but given that society is not so accepting of that it does not seem like a viable option for them.
In other words, if people were more accepting of different gender expressions, fewer people would seek SRS (only the ones who won't regret it someday)...and a lot fewer trans people would feel so ostracized that they commit suicide.
Just by being kind, decent, and accepting of others we can make this better for a lot of people.
This is incorrect. It is an artificial and false construction to separate your physicality from your mind. They are inextricably linked and comprise your human identity. Your gender includes the physicality that you are born with. It cannot be changed, and the best approach is to make peace with reality. And this can be done, it's simply a matter of making a decision, and then exercising volitional focus.
If you're going to declare people you don't know and have never met mentally ill, yeah you damn well better have some Psychology to back it up, because the American Psychiatric Association disagrees.
And with supportive care and treatment, trans people such as myself are not "more likely to spiral downward."
Despite the small sample size, this shows that most trans people's lives improve after transition. They are hardly "spiraling downward."
That's why I called you an armchair Psychiatrist/Psychologist, because who have no idea what you're talking about. Educate yourself.
The title is gender reversal surgery on the rise.
Gender reversal surgery is mutilating your own genitals into being something they are not.
Then wishing you hadn't caused such deformities to yourself. Many people have mental issues, it's not a stigma and for most, it can be helped. This person didn't get the right help. And anyone who thinks otherwise needs help themselves.
You stating that I am mentally ill and in need of help is an insult. I have excellent doctors and an excellent Psychiatrist. So I suppose we're even, then?
I just saw this and didn't realize you had a mental illness. I am sorry for that, will add you to my prayers.
But even with that challenge, we don't support others to mutilate their bodies because they think they should decide what sex to be. We don't support anorexics to continue mutilating their bodies refusing adequate food intake, we don't support a terribly obese person to continue eating massive amounts of food, we don't support someone who thinks they are a witch to get a nose job so it will be longer appearing as such, etc....We support people to be happy and healthy. And when the illness is in the mind, we treat the mind.
Money proposed and developed several theories and related terminology, including gender identity, gender role,[6] gender-identity/role, and lovemap. He also changed the word "perversions" to "paraphilias" and the word "sexual preference" to "sexual orientation", striving towards less judgmental descriptions and arguing that attraction is not necessarily a matter of free will.[2] Money was a professor of pediatrics and medical psychology at Johns Hopkins University from 1951 until his death. He also established the Johns Hopkins Gender Identity Clinic in 1965 along with Claude Migeon who was the head of plastic surgery at Johns Hopkins. The hospital began performing sexual reassignment surgery in 1966.[7] At Johns Hopkins, Money was also involved with the Sexual Behaviors Unit, which ran studies on sex-reassignment surgery. He received the Magnus Hirschfeld Medal in 2002 from the German Society for Social-Scientific Sexuality Research.
From wikipedia. You can read about his "experiments" and "research" there. I would post it, but it will get removed because they are so disgusting. At least be honest about the word's origin.
I already showed you that Money did not coin the word gender. In addition, defining a condition does not mean it never existed prior to the definition being developed.
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Originally Posted by newtovenice
Murder is always wrong. I don't think anyone here has said any different, or thinks any different.
But this has nothing to do with mental illness. Nothing. It's a smoke screen argument. And to say that "it would not affect me" is an insult. You haven't read my posts for what they are. Of course MURDER IS WRONG.
It's also why I find John Money's experiments of sexual abuse of toddlers in the name of transgender research so disgusting. Or do you approve of his research? Have you even heard of him? have you read his work?
Money was trying to help children with birth defects or who had severe genital injuries. It was not research in the context of taking a child with normal genitals and performing surgery just to see if you could change a boy into a girl for the sole purpose of research.
How do you think a boy with no penis should be treated?
Hint: there are reconstructive options now that were not available 60 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
I'm actually appalled at the lack of research you are doing and still trying to debate with me. You post 5,000 links every time you post, yet you STILL have done zero research into John Money? Who sexually abused toddlers in the name of research? And you are posting as though it is an offside that doesn't matter? No mention of the fact that he forced the twin boys to simulate sex acts with each other in the name of GENDER RESEARCH????? Calling one Brenda and telling HIM that he is a GIRL is "helping"?
Making twin toddlers pretend to have sex with each other, telling their parents its for their own good, writing up false papers about how its so successful when it CAUSED the man to KILL HIMSELF is "HELPING"?????
"Psychologist John Money oversaw the case and reported the reassignment as successful and as evidence that gender identity is primarily learned. Academic sexologist Milton Diamond later reported that Reimer's realization he was not a girl crystallized between the ages of 9 and 11,[2] and he transitioned to living as a male at age 15. Well known in medical circles for years anonymously as the "John/Joan" case, Reimer later went public with his story to help discourage similar medical practices.[3]"
Oh and here is what happened to BOTH the boys:
"On July 1, 2002,[18] Brian was found dead from an overdose of antidepressants. On May 4, 2004, after suffering years of severe depression, financial instability, and marital troubles,[19] David committed suicide by shooting himself in the head with a sawed-off shotgun at the age of 38. Reimer's parents have stated that Money's methodology was responsible for the deaths of both of their sons.[20]"
"For the first thirty years after Money's initial report that the reassignment had been a success, Money's view of the malleability of gender became the dominant viewpoint among physicians and doctors, reassuring them that sexual reassignment was the correct decision in certain instances, resulting in thousands of sexual reassignments.[15]"
Thousands of reassignments based off a case where BOTH committed suicide. But hey, it's for research and helping and doesn't matter that both committed suicide. Because it was a success according to Money. /facepalm/
Obviously that was not a successful outcome.
What is missing from your posts are data on satisfaction from the entire group of males with severe genital injuries reared as females. Are all of them unhappy? Do all of them become suicidal?
Relevance to gender dysphoria is also absent. However, I fear you have inadvertently proven the point that gender is not dependent on genitalia but on the brain. David retained his male gender identity despite sex reassignment surgery.
I don't wanna stir up too much controversy here but I seen an increase in gay/bi-sexual/pansexual/ transexual lifestyle/claims. I feel like an increasingly amount of our population "claim" to be gay. In my opinion, I think society put in their heads that they're gay or they were put in the wrong body. Therefore, they adopt a mind frame of "something missing"
When i was a teenager, there was the occasional kid who confessed about being gay/lesbian but I haven't knew anyone that questioned their gender. (until now-more about that later). But now, it seems like a lot more people are confessing that they're gay, transexual, "born into the wrong body", etc.... (And I hate to say this, but I think it's a bandwagon mentality going on) Sure, you can make the argument that today's society are more tolerate and accepting than it was in the early 2000's, and that's true, but those "claims" have skyrocketed in the past 7 years or so. Therefore, for some of the population, I think it could be a cry for help rather than being "born into the wrong body", or "being gay". I also do know people who claimed to be gay at one point but switch back to the hetero lifestyle later on in life.
One of my dearest friend's cousin, who is 16 years old, claims to be gay. Everyone in her family, including her mom, thinks it's a phase. While there's no "warning signs" of people being gay, her mom insists that she enjoyed doing feminine things and liked boys. And then one day, BOOM, she's gay. Now she's talking about having a sex change when she turns 18 years old. Her mom thinks that since her estranged dad is homophobic, she is acting out "in the worst way possible" in order to "seek revenge on him." (she blames him for the divorce)
From interacting with gay people IRL, there were signs that the parents/sibblings/friends saw before they confessed that they were gay. Of course I know those signs are not universal for everyone to adapt to but I'm just giving you my perspective on what I have seen or have been told. But I am not gay nor I have a desire to switch genders, so I cannot truly empathize.
You seem to conflate gender identity and sexuality. They are not the same. Yes, we are hearing more about sexuality and gender dysphoria precisely because it is being talked about more.
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Originally Posted by chiluvr1228
We aren't talking about it because we don't care. It effects me not in the least. Perhaps these people should get extensive mental health before committing to such drastic measures?
They should and do. One poster here insists that because they get counselling they are by definition mentally ill. That is not true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basiliximab
That is true, however the point of the thread is that the media is propagandizing transgenders like they're normal, healthy, everyday individuals which is NOT TRUE for many of them. Many, if not most of these people have serious mental issues that do not go addressed when gender re-assignment is fronted as a main-stream activity. That's just not the facts, people. The fact is there are underlying issues with many if not most transgendered people. Such people are often under the impression that changing their gender can fix these problems; however, the high percentage of gender-reassignment regret and high suicide rate is some evidence that that's just not the case.
Once again, it is very important to not get caught up in emotional reactions and look at the straight facts. There surely are people who change their genders and go on to lead very successful lives; I am not doubting that. Yet there is a significant percentage of individuals who consider themselves to be transgender who have very serious mental problems, but there is not a word of this in the mainstream media.
If there is not a word of it in the media, why does this thread exist?
What is being found is that success is higher for those allowed to transition early and who do so with family support.
The fact is that mental health issues associated with being transgender are by and large due to the way trans folk are treated, whether they have had surgery or not. Some transwomen do not use public restrooms at all, because they may be assaulted in the men's room and people get hysterical at the idea of their using the women's room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchessCottonPuff
I know MANY, many trans folk and have had three friends that I can think of off the top of my head who have de- transitioned in the last few years . They all had enough cash and knew the right keywords to tell the psych . Alot of garden variety cross dressers have learned how to do this and yes I have come to believe after many years of involvement in that community that many DO but wont get actual therapy from a therapist that knows the difference.
The people that I know got their jobs back but not the family they were hoping for , had EVERYTHING done including facial surgery and have described themselves as Ken dolls .
You can only go so far back when you have had that amount of work done .
At first they felt like killing themselves because they could not get the surgery fast enough. Now they feel the same because they are stuck in this middle sort of place . One feels nothing -no emotion- anymore , another is now mentally incapable of falling in love ( he said was his greatest regret ) of feeling the emotion of love .
How many cross dressers have gender dysphoria?
That some try to game the system and lie does not mean that true gender dysphoria does not exist.
It's a shame that someone would feel it necessary to de-transition in order to get a job back. That just shows how intolerance fuels dissatisfaction. It's also a shame that someone would be rejected by his or her family for being trans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
The reason for this is obvious. People realize the inescapable truth: that you really cannot change your gender. You are what reality says you are, and that is defined by your plumbing. And always will be, regardless of any physical mutilation applied to your body.
Yes, you really cannot change your gender. That is the very definition of gender dysphoria. You do not get to define gender for anyone except yourself.
I already showed you that Money did not coin the word gender. In addition, defining a condition does not mean it never existed prior to the definition being developed.
Money was trying to help children with birth defects or who had severe genital injuries. It was not research in the context of taking a child with normal genitals and performing surgery just to see if you could change a boy into a girl for the sole purpose of research.
How do you think a boy with no penis should be treated?
Hint: there are reconstructive options now that were not available 60 years ago.
Obviously that was not a successful outcome.
What is missing from your posts are data on satisfaction from the entire group of males with severe genital injuries reared as females. Are all of them unhappy? Do all of them become suicidal?
Relevance to gender dysphoria is also absent. However, I fear you have inadvertently proven the point that gender is not dependent on genitalia but on the brain. David retained his male gender identity despite sex reassignment surgery.
EXACTLY the point. David never had the opportunity to voice a desire to change - this was something done TO him merely because of the botched circumcision. Mere physicality does not define sexuality. You can cut off my clit and sew a penis on me (yeah, I'm female) and that doesn't make me a man or make me want to BE a man or make me FEEL like I'm a man. Then in fact I would be dysphoric because my physical appearance does that match what I KNOW I am. How is this concept so difficult for people to understand?
Venus - sorry, I mean Venice - if we cut your junk off would you feel like and want to be a woman? Or would you feel like a fish out of water?
And let's further pretend for a moment that this happened to you say, before you were adopted and your adoptive parents didn't know about it - what if then whenever you said you were really male that EVERYONE said..."just a phase"...or "these crazy kids nowadays"...or "you're screwed up and crazy in the head"...if you were told that a thousand times, might that affect how you felt about yourself....? Might you seek counseling? Try REALLY, REALLY hard and consider this scenario.
I just saw this and didn't realize you had a mental illness. I am sorry for that, will add you to my prayers.
For (roughly) the 30th time...I don't have a mental illness. I appreciate your prayers.
Quote:
But even with that challenge, we don't support others to mutilate their bodies because they think they should decide what sex to be.
I haven't mutilated my body. I have no idea what you are referring to. I will be referred to a surgeon trained in genital reconstruction, but surgery is hardly mutilation if performed correctly.
-------
After spending time talking to God, I think it's time for me to disengage. I realize now, that no matter what I say, no matter what evidence I provide, there are some people that will refuse to accept this, and they will never change. I have self-esteem issues, caused by the attitudes of others (mostly family), and this is not a good discussion for me to be in. I knew that from the beginning, but one of the most important things my Psychiatrist has taught me, is the importance of standing up for oneself. She also taught me that sometimes it's necessary to cut one's losses and remove oneself from toxic people and toxic situations. This has become toxic for me.
suzy, renee, xpat and others. I ask that you please continue. In your defending me and other trans people, you've been such a blessing to me, and undoubtedly others like me. Thank you, you all are more amazing than you know.
They are now declaring kids as young as age three as being transgender. And those who facilitate and implement the hormones, puberty blockers, breast implants, castration, mutilation and sterilization, should be charged with child abuse.
No problem if a person decided on his or her own, after the age of 18, that they want to change genders.
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