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Why would a mentally healthy individual -- as some here are claiming that transgenders are mentally healthy -- need to see a psychiatrist for a year in order to qualify for surgery? What other surgery needs a note from a psychiatrist to approve it? From what has been posted in this thread, they only seek counseling for depression/anxiety. Yet, there are no surgeries to cure depression/anxiety. So how can a psychiatrist approve a surgery for an ailment that apparently does not exist and has no diagnosis (transgender)?
If surgery is MEDICALLY necessary, and transgender is not a medical diagnosis, then aren't hormones and surgery purely for cosmetic? Since it's not a health issue, and they are simply *misunderstood* there is no MEDICAL reason for any treatment.
Why is cosmetic surgery that has no medical reason associated with it (unlike, say reconstruction for breast cancer patients), since according to some transgenders are perfectly mentally healthy -- why is it covered by MEDICAL insurance? It's not needed because there are no health issues to treat.
Either it's a medical condition that needs treatment or it's cosmetic wanted by a mentally healthy individual. Pick one. Logic states that they can't both be true.
People who are having other kinds of surgery are sometimes asked to see a psychiatrist first, including people considering implantable devices for pain control and bariatric surgery.
What is covered by insurance depends on the specific contract. It depends on what you are prepared to pay for. Many, if not most, insurance plans will not cover any cosmetic surgery and do indeed consider procedures for sex reassignment to be cosmetic.
Refusal to categorize being transgender as a mental illness does not equate with denial that transgenderism exists.
People who are having other kinds of surgery are sometimes asked to see a psychiatrist first, including people considering implantable devices for pain control and bariatric surgery.
What is covered by insurance depends on the specific contract. It depends on what you are prepared to pay for. Many, if not most, insurance plans will not cover any cosmetic surgery and do indeed consider procedures for sex reassignment to be cosmetic.
Refusal to categorize being transgender as a mental illness does not equate with denial that transgenderism exists.
Bariatric surgery is to treat obesity, a medical and behavioral condition. The patient goes in for treatment of a medical condition and then is REFERRED to counseling.
Implantable devices are also used to treat medical conditions, that may cause some behavioral issues. The patient goes in for treatment of a medical condition and then is REFERRED to counseling.
What medical condition does sex reassignment surgery treat? Because according to your posts, it is not a disease nor mental illness. Which makes it 100% cosmetic, completely UNNECESSARY. It's not a treatment, not a cure, not a prevention. And psychiatrists should not need to be involved, since -- according to your posts -- it is not a medical issue.
You keep painting yourself in the same circle.
Either it is a mental illness that needs treatment (including surgery), or it's a cosmetic procedure that needs no medical services, no psychiatric care, and should not be covered by health insurance (ACA indeed left provisions for it, some of which have been blocked. But you knew that right? WRONG).
Name a cosmetic surgery that requires a year of psychiatric visits.
Again, pick one. Logic dictates you cannot have both conditions.
Last edited by newtovenice; 10-13-2017 at 11:58 AM..
Bariatric surgery is to treat obesity, a medical and behavioral condition. The patient goes in for treatment of a medical condition and then is REFERRED to counseling.
Implantable devices are also used to treat medical conditions, that may cause some behavioral issues. The patient goes in for treatment of a medical condition and then is REFERRED to counseling.
What medical condition does sex reassignment surgery treat? Because according to your posts, it is not a disease nor mental illness. Which makes it 100% cosmetic, completely UNNECESSARY. It's not a treatment, not a cure, not a prevention. And psychiatrists should not need to be involved, since -- according to your posts -- it is not a medical issue.
You keep painting yourself in the same circle.
Either it is a mental illness that needs treatment (including surgery), or it's a cosmetic procedure that needs no medical services, no psychiatric care, and should not be covered by health insurance (ACA indeed left provisions for it, some of which have been blocked. But you knew that right? WRONG).
Name a cosmetic surgery that requires a year of psychiatric visits.
Again, pick one. Logic dictates you cannot have both conditions.
You asked if there were any other surgeries for which psychiatric consultation was recommended. I gave two examples. In both cases the counselling comes before the surgery. Now you are just tap dancing and trying to move the goal posts.
By your definition all cosmetic surgery is unnecessary. Perhaps you would never have breast augmentation or liposuction for yourself. Does that mean no one should have it? Tubal sterilization is not "medically necessary". Insurance usually will pay for it. Some states mandate coverage for infertility procedures like IVF. Getting pregnant is not "medically necessary". Prescription contraceptives are not "medically necessary". Most medical insurance covers them.
What insurance covers is up to the company designing the policy and depends on what policyholders are willing to pay for.
Being transgendered does not need to be classified as a mental illness for treatment to be indicated, and the decision on whether it is indicated or not rests with the person contemplating the surgery. Ongoing psychiatric consultation is indicated for a person in gender transition in order to help negotiate the social minefield. It does not mean the person involved in the transition is mentally ill.
Your posts just underscore that you have no concept of what the practice of psychiatry entails.
You asked if there were any other surgeries for which psychiatric consultation was recommended. I gave two examples. In both cases the counselling comes before the surgery. Now you are just tap dancing and trying to move the goal posts.
By your definition all cosmetic surgery is unnecessary. Perhaps you would never have breast augmentation or liposuction for yourself. Does that mean no one should have it? Tubal sterilization is not "medically necessary". Insurance usually will pay for it. Some states mandate coverage for infertility procedures like IVF. Getting pregnant is not "medically necessary". Prescription contraceptives are not "medically necessary". Most medical insurance covers them.
What insurance covers is up to the company designing the policy and depends on what policyholders are willing to pay for.
Being transgendered does not need to be classified as a mental illness for treatment to be indicated, and the decision on whether it is indicated or not rests with the person contemplating the surgery. Ongoing psychiatric consultation is indicated for a person in gender transition in order to help negotiate the social minefield. It does not mean the person involved in the transition is mentally ill.
Your posts just underscore that you have no concept of what the practice of psychiatry entails.
So you believe that obesity and other issues that would make an implantable device necessary are NOT medical conditions?
You need to compare like to like. So obesity, transgerdism and conditions that require implantable devices are ALL medical conditions that need psychiatric services and surgery, or NONE of them are. Which is it?
Since transgenderism is the only cosmetic surgery -- and tubal ligation falls under birth control, a fully recognized medical procedure, it is not cosmetic unless someone is looking at your organs??? -- WHY does it need medical psychiatric services?
If transgenderism is not a disease it should not need a year of psychiatric counseling BEFORE surgery. I mean, they are perfectly healthy and emotionally and mentally stable, per your multiple posts, correct?
So why the forced pysch consult? For someone who is --according to you -- mentally healthy and who wants cosmetic surgery?
So they should just walk in to a surgeon, ask for it and it's a done deal. You are avoiding the direct question at all costs with nonsense replies. Sorry, you're the one dancing, as you don't understand the difference between medically recognized surgery and cosmetic.
Mentally healthy people can handle "social mindfields" whatever that means. Mentally ill people cannot, which is why they NEED PSYCH HELP.
Unless of course you now believe it *is* a medical condition and that is why you are comparing it to other medical conditions?
Either it is medical condition that needs medical professionals (like a psychiatrist) or it is NOT a medical condition and they should be able to get surgery just by requesting it.
Basic question, last time:
If transgerderism is not a mental illness and all transgenders are 100% mentally healthy and need no psychiatric or counseling services because it is not a mental disease: Why do they need one year of psychiatric care before cosmetic surgery is permitted? Medical psychiatric care for cosmetic surgery. Why?
It seems very clear to me, but if others are set in their opinion, nothing is going to change their minds.
Suzy has explained it incredibly well.
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It seems very clear to me, but if others are set in their opinion, nothing is going to change their minds.
Suzy has explained it incredibly well.
Actually, no she has not. "Social mindfield" is not a medical condition, unlike obesity or needing an implantable medical device.
She has compared people with two separate sets of recognized and treatable medical conditions where patients are referred to psychological counseling as an adjunct to medical treatment to something where there is no medical condition/no treatment needed and yet people must have psych help for a YEAR before cosmetic surgery.
Read that sentence again. And again.
It's apples and oranges. You cannot compare the two scenarios. It's a logical fallacy. Take it to any HS English teacher.
I am not set in any opinion. My opinions change when truth and facts are put forth. I am looking for truthful debate and logic. She hasn't provided it.
I will not read it repeatedly. YOU say that it is not a medical condition and it is cosmetic, I disagree.
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I will not read it repeatedly. YOU say that it is not a medical condition and it is cosmetic, I disagree.
Actually Suzy was saying that. Repeatedly, that they are mentally healthy and the only reason they need psych consult is to help them with the social minefield. That transgenderism s not a medical condition.
I absolutely believe that it is a medical condition and they need help. So WE -- you and me -- actually agree.
And this is an area where my opinion completely changed, after reading, researching, writing and interviewing transgenders. I went from a very typical liberal stance to one who can see how badly they have been taken advantage of and used for political gain, and they are not getting the help they need. It's very, very sad.
Look into John Money, a sexologist who created the modern usage of the word "gender" and experimented with children. The word "gender" didn't exist in this manner until the 1950s/1960s. Before that it was a way to refer to language/word endings (amigo/amiga). He also falsified research, yet somehow it still is the basis for the idea that "gender" is an actuality. It's troubling at best, and at its worst it is sick child sexual abuse, the experiments that he did, and he should have been put in jail.
If you really want to learn more about gender, you must read about John Money. Otherwise you have no idea what the foundation of the arguments are.
I mean medical, from a standpoint that their gender is wrong, not as in mental health.
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