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The alcohol makes him feel good. It is that simple, for some alcoholics.
He can never be talked into quitting, that has to come from his own self, not you.
I had a neighbor who is 18 years sober. He was talking to me about it one day, and he said the first time he went to an AA meeting, he was shocked that in the parking lot afterward, some of the attendees were laughing and joking about something. How could that be? In his mind, not drinking ever again meant never having a good time ever again, never laughing and having fun again.
He knows differently now, but for the alcoholic, imagining a world without drinking can be frightening.
His body is addicted to it. Quitting cold turkey would be dangerous and potentially even fatal.
His dopamine receptors have been altered to more or less need alcohol, as it hits them harder than actual dopamine. The brain has a lot of elasticity, but it can take a year of sobriety to not only attenuate those receptors back to regular dopamine, but also for his mood regulation to return to normal.
His day is predicated around getting that drink, that fix. At this stage, it is basically required until he is ready AND has a medically monitored intervention to prevent the worst of withdrawal.
Lastly, I would say that mental illness and substance abuse are almost always BOTH present. It’s rare to have a substance abuse disorder without other mental illness being present (as is the case with myself). I can’t speak for him, but it is highly likely to me that fairly intensive mental health will also need to be part of the solution. Treating one without the other doesn’t make anything impossible, but it does make it far harder.
Lastly, I would say that mental illness and substance abuse are almost always BOTH present. It’s rare to have a substance abuse disorder without other mental illness being present (as is the case with myself). I can’t speak for him, but it is highly likely to me that fairly intensive mental health will also need to be part of the solution. Treating one without the other doesn’t make anything impossible, but it does make it far harder.
I don't want to start an argument but I have known several alcoholics, up close and personal, that had no mental disorder, other than being alcoholics. In some cases it was socialized through upbringing and I see the next generation also having problems with alcohol.
Yes I've seen non-clinical (and some clinical, meaning they have had treatment for it) depression but there's the "chicken or the egg" question of whether alcohol causes depression or whether people drink because they are depressed.
Since every single person on earth has "mental issues" (traumas they have repressed, addictive habits they've adopted, behaviors that are not ideal, etc., etc.,), alcoholism is a maladaptive method to self-soothe, hide, repress, etc.
The first time you get drunk might be a mistake - maybe you didn't realize how many drinks you could safely have - but repeating the behavior over and over again, despite negative results (and I know alcoholics who have medically detoxed several times - which is painful) - how DUMB is that?
The self-sabotage and lack of respect for health is just ridiculous.
They seriously should be shamed for hurting themselves and others - and I don't buy into the "disease" concept - that was adopted by the DSM, et al to promote rehabs, etc. It's big business.
I don't want to start an argument but I have known several alcoholics, up close and personal, that had no mental disorder, other than being alcoholics. In some cases it was socialized through upbringing and I see the next generation also having problems with alcohol.
Yes I've seen non-clinical (and some clinical, meaning they have had treatment for it) depression but there's the "chicken or the egg" question of whether alcohol causes depression or whether people drink because they are depressed.
I know more than a good dozen alcoholics, including mostly family members, and I also have a masters in psychology and am working towards one in addiction counseling... every. single.one I know can be diagnosed with a mental disorder and not a purely a depressive disorder such as dysthymia.
There's a recent meta-analysis study that found a strong association between common mental disorders (CMD) such as panic disorders and bipolar disorders, where folks had a higher self-reported rate of alcohol misuse using the NIAA daily and weekly drinking guidelines.
People who saw him every day decided I needed to know the truth about the enormous amount he drinks every day, which has led to some unfortunate, embarrassing incidents and consequences. I met with him last week, told him everything I'd been told. At first he sounded open to some of the treatment options, he admitted he has a problem, but he "needed some time to think."
Since then, I've invited him for dinner a couple times (he had weak excuses to say no), we've had some light-hearted texts, but hadn't actually conversed, which we usually do 3 or 4 times a week.
Yesterday he finally picked up when I called him. He told me I have "crossed a line," that I have "humiliated him" by telling so many people about his life (I have told no one; I think he was drunk and got mixed up that it was other people who told ME.) Now he wants me to just back off and leave him alone. He does not want to talk to me for a while, maybe never.
None of what I'm going to say is meant to be mean, but it may sound that way. This will be coming from someone who does drink, but I still spend a lot of time with my family, kids, grandkids, etc., so I'm not in the same frame of mind he is in. But also I'm only going on what you've put in your opening post.
You have people telling you sordid stories about your son, which I feel is kind of gross that people who are in his daily circle feel that its any of their business to share such information, but I get it, I assume they were worried about him and hoped you knowing would knock some sense into him? Or thought it was funny to tell his own mom that he fell down or pissed himself or got in a fight while drunk?
Anyway, you said yourself you had a good relationship with him, talked to him several times a week, but your first discussion after finding out is to tell him about all the horrible things he's done, and then told him to go to treatment. And you wonder why he doesn't want to talk to you? He's hurt and embarrassed and feels you and these other people are in his business, people whom he formerly trusted. So no doubt he's cut them off too, now that he knows they aren't his real friends, or at least not to party with anymore since he knows they will narc him out, and he doesn't want to talk to you because he feels you will just harp on him to quit.
Just thoughts that jump out at me.
Last edited by clevergirl67; 01-30-2024 at 01:11 PM..
We have a son with an addictive disorder. He swore off alcohol in his 20s, but it was replaced by other things, like chewing tobacco, caffeine, and drugs. He has ADHD, but channeled his need for structure and excitement by joining the Army, where he excelled and rose to the most select Special Ops there is. Then, he suffered a severe injury and was prescribed fentanyl patches in order to work through the pain by Army doctors. He has a concussive brain injury too. He medically retired from the Army but struggled with drug addiction for years after. This fabulous, talented, brave person, could have easily wound up under a bridge.
I’m grateful that he finally got the help he needed from a year long program in the VA. It was only because he luckily connected with the pro active people who could help him.
My point in all this is there are physical reasons why some people cannot help themselves overcome addiction without a lot of help, and there are not enough places in the country for these people to get it.
Last edited by gentlearts; 01-30-2024 at 01:06 PM..
None of what I'm going to say is meant to be mean, but it may sound that way. This will be coming from someone who does drink, but I still spend a lot of time with my family, kids, grandkids, etc., so I'm not in the same frame of mind he is in. But also I'm only going on what you've put in your opening post.
You have people telling you sordid stories about your son, which I feel is kind of gross that people who are in his daily circle feel that its any of their business to share such information, but I get it, I assume they were worried about him and hoped you knowing would knock some sense into him? Or thought it was funny to tell his own mom that he fell down or pissed himself or got in a fight while drunk?
Anyway, you said yourself you had a good relationship with him, talked to him several times a week, but your first discussion after finding out is to tell him about all the horrible things he's done, and then told him to go to treatment. And you wonder why he doesn't want to talk to you? He's hurt and embarrassed and feels you and these other people are in his business, people whom he formerly trusted. So no doubt he's cut them off too, now that he knows they aren't his real friends, or at least not to party with anymore since he knows they will narc him out, and he doesn't want to talk to you because he feels you will just harp on him to quit.
Just thoughts that jump out at me.
The way I see his reaction is that.with any alcoholic or addict, above all else, the addiction must be protected.
Kayanne did not share the details of what her acquaintances said about her son's behavior. Your guesses are just conjecture.
But she did say it seemed to bother him and he knew he had a problem. Thats exactly the thing that will set off the addiction's self-preservation. "You don't have a problem. It's her. She's trying to change things, and we don't want to change. Have a drink, and avoid your mother because she makes you feel things you don't want to feel."
kayanne, there is something you can do, attend Al-Anon meetings, every day if you can. You'll find others affected by another's drinking. You'll learn it's SELF CARE not selfish. It's told if on an airplane, in an emergency, you put the air mask on yourself first, Before you help anyone else.
Hit bottom one has to hit, when no one is there or Spiritual Awakening. Like Mighty Queen said, there are 2 choices, one for the drinker and one for the family, friend person.
Remember, attending an Al-Anon meeting in a hospital where alcoholics were seeking treatment. The person living with them left, who has the addiction or an Al-Anon left her marriage And married another alcoholic.
kayanne , you need treatment as well. Al-Anon taught me I had a Choice, later so did AA.
It's a powerful, cunning, baffling, disease.
I don't want to start an argument but I have known several alcoholics, up close and personal, that had no mental disorder, other than being alcoholics. In some cases it was socialized through upbringing and I see the next generation also having problems with alcohol.
Yes I've seen non-clinical (and some clinical, meaning they have had treatment for it) depression but there's the "chicken or the egg" question of whether alcohol causes depression or whether people drink because they are depressed.
Not saying it’s all people by any means. I also didn’t have the language or understanding to acknowledge my own issues. It is what it is, but if you have an alcoholic friend or relative, or anybody with SUD, it’s worth thinking about. The addict’s mind is a really strange place. That’s my greater point.
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