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Just what the hell is one guard going to do against the Nazi regime? Those of you that say you would do this and you would do that, but if you were in his position you really don't know what you would do.
You can sit on the computer and be a big hero. In his place you probably would have done just as he did.
Just what the hell is one guard going to do against the Nazi regime? Those of you that say you would do this and you would do that, but if you were in his position you really don't know what you would do.
You can sit on the computer and be a big hero. In his place you probably would have done just as he did.
Not all who worked as guards were prosecuted. Those who did presonal acts of abuse were. It doesn't say why the German govenment is prosecuting, but one should assume there is a reason. There is no difference, for instance, in a guard shooting a prisoner and the mass killing of thousands. Death is death. The guards at concentration camps were not regular soldiers, but chosen for the job. They did NOT want soldiers involved, but those who could cope with the dehumanizing world.
It shouldn't be assumed that this man was 'just a guard' or a soldier. It is odd that the extradition is being held because of his age as well. My dad joined the navy at sixteen. If one could join the service then one should be able to be held responsible for what he may or may not have done.
I grew up in that part of Philadelphia living with my Pennsylvania Dutch grandparents. Being German was like being Chinese in San Francisco, you could go through life without learning English. There were theaters that showed only German films.
No the article says nothing like that. How in the world did you interpret that?
I know it didn't, but to justify prosecuting this man, all the soldiers/guards that served in Nazi Germany should have also been prosecuted. And given the tremendous numbers, I highly doubt that that took place.
The "man," a term I use loosely in this wastes of oxygen's case, admitted to being a guard at Auschwitz. He kept Jews, Roma's, homosexuals, et al CONFINED to a camp, so they could be marched off, gassed, and cremated. He assisted in the wholesale MURDERING of 1+ million people. He is NO different then the person who ordered the killings; he assisted in carrying them out.
There is NO evidence he allowed persons trying to escape, safe passage. There is NO evidence he was "forced" into the life he chose (oh he was a kid at 17; no, you are not a kid at 17. Save it.). He willingly participated in the killings of persons, persecuted by a disgusting, demeaning society. Let him go? No. Kill him and quickly.
Its the same in this country. You drive a man to the grocery store and he robs it. He kills the store clerk and you drive him away from the scene. YOU, the driver, are just as guilty as the killer; even if you did not pull the trigger. Same holds here. He kept men, women, and children locked in a camp, on threat of death of they tried to escape and please, he would have shot and killed anyone who tried to escape, so they could be slaughtered later on.
The people who are standing up for this filthy, disgusting, waste of oxygen, who lived a great cowards life in the US, after the war, while millions were killed by him and his ilk, are more disgusting then he is.
If this man is found guilty of crimes, murder and crimes against humanity then absolutely he should suffer the death penalty. His age then or now is totally irrelevant.
He must be proved guilty and suffer penalty for his crimes.
As a member of the SS he's not in a good position to argue innocence.
The SS were volunteers and adhered to a doctrine that was nothing more than organized mass murder. SS troops routinely gunned down prisoners civilians and whomever they found to be 'non-human'...
Regulars in the Wehrmacht might be able to feign innocence and claim to have been "simply fighting for Germany" but the SS simply cannot make that claim, in all honesty.
Interesting, the US says they cannot extradite him, because he was 17 yrs old at the time of his enlistment in the SS. I was 17 yrs old when I joined the Marine Corps and no one had a problem with that.
But you lived in society where you had your free choices.
He grew up in a different society, where by the time he turned seventeen he didn't have too many choices, or he already didn't know any better.
His age in this situation does make a difference I believe.
But you lived in society where you had your free choices.
He grew up in a different society, where by the time he turned seventeen he didn't have too many choices, or he already didn't know any better.
His age in this situation does make a difference I believe.
I could agree with this statement, except for one HUGE glaring omission:
He JOINED THE SS. He could have joined the regular army, air force, or navy. However, he CHOSE to join the SS, which was designed, by Himmler, to be the "strong arm" of Germany. He KNEW what he was doing and he KNEW what the SS was all about.
He didn't know any better? Then WHY were there THOUSANDS of others who DID NOT join the SS? They did join the Navy, the Army, the Air Force. Why did THEY do that and he decided to join the SS? Because he wanted the glamour, the love, the support, and guidance of the German people. The SS was feared and revered in their society. He wanted it all and got it all; now its time to pay the piper.
He made his decision. He was proud of his decision. NO WHERE does he even say he was "sorry." Nothing. Notta. Zip. Zilch. He only says he was "camp guard" and didn't kill anyone. Well, yes he did. He walked around with MP40 on his side and kept men, women, and children locked behind a barbed wire fence. Those same people were walked into a gas chamber and killed.
And as I said, when the war came to an end, he didn't stay and stand up for his "Fatherland." Which he swore an allegiance too. He turned, ran like the coward that he was then and is now, and came to the United States. I sure wish the 6 million Jews, Roma's, homosexuals, et al had the chance to come to the United States and live. Oh, sorry, the United States wouldn't let them.
Age is one thing, the fact that he was "just a guard" is another. The Nuremberg trials has already ruled that using that sort of defence is not justifiable if indeed attrocities were committed by an individual. Many tried to use that defense of "we were just following orders". It didn't work then, it should not work now. We don't know if he did or not participate in attrocities, the article does not give that detail, and I am not sure what German law is. If he was just a witness to such attrocities, in his guard role, then I would hope he would be allowed to live in peace, with maybe living with the guilt that he played a part in the Nazi murder machine.
However, if he activily participated in the brutality in these camps - personally shooting prisoners, brutalizing prisoners, herding them into gas chambers - he hangs. Whatever his age at the time - these are adult crimes.
I couldn't disagree more! After reading these comments in bold, I was reminded of the phrase I heard decades ago, "To the victors go the spoils of war" as well as "History means, his-story." The winning side always writes the history books, paints the opposition as being evil and the winner's always the good guy dressed in white. Just because some kangaroo court in Nuremberg found all sorts of reasons to prosecute a defeated enemy that was simply carrying out their orders doesn't necessarily mean that it's etched in stone. Many Germans stood trial and were persecuted by the allies that were guilty of doing the exact same thing during the war. The allies killed how many civilians due to unrestricted bombing of civilian cities with absolutely no military value. Karl Doenitz was put up on trail for unrestricted submarine warfare. In his defense, he pointed out that the allies did the very same thing in the Pacific sinking Japanese merchant shipping. Of all Japan's civilian shipping losses, more than 90% were lost to American submarines employing unrestricted warfare against non-combatants, so Doenitz was spared a death sentence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306
I could agree with this statement, except for one HUGE glaring omission:
He JOINED THE SS. He could have joined the regular army, air force, or navy. However, he CHOSE to join the SS, which was designed, by Himmler, to be the "strong arm" of Germany. He KNEW what he was doing and he KNEW what the SS was all about.
He didn't know any better? Then WHY were there THOUSANDS of others who DID NOT join the SS? They did join the Navy, the Army, the Air Force. Why did THEY do that and he decided to join the SS? Because he wanted the glamour, the love, the support, and guidance of the German people. The SS was feared and revered in their society. He wanted it all and got it all; now its time to pay the piper.
He made his decision. He was proud of his decision. NO WHERE does he even say he was "sorry." Nothing. Notta. Zip. Zilch. He only says he was "camp guard" and didn't kill anyone. Well, yes he did. He walked around with MP40 on his side and kept men, women, and children locked behind a barbed wire fence. Those same people were walked into a gas chamber and killed.
And as I said, when the war came to an end, he didn't stay and stand up for his "Fatherland." Which he swore an allegiance too. He turned, ran like the coward that he was then and is now, and came to the United States. I sure wish the 6 million Jews, Roma's, homosexuals, et al had the chance to come to the United States and live. Oh, sorry, the United States wouldn't let them.
Addressing the most inflammatory statements in this post, he apparently may have drunk the same Kool Aid you do, just under a different regime. We have no idea why he joined the SS. It could be as the supposition you've put forth in print, or it could be for other reasons. We have no idea. However, the fact that he was in an elite unit doesn't much matter, and if his unit was so elite, why were they just guards? For those with a belief system as the person quoted, I should think that you'd all agree that Navy Seals, Marine Recon, and other special forces should all be rounded up, and treated as war criminals. Just because these American service men are only following orders appears to be an unacceptable excuse. While I'm not suggesting that this is a fair way to treat service men, regardless of what faction they belong to or whether they won or lost. I am not that naive. I'm all for dragging war mongers into court, but unfortunately, rather than prosecute profiteers from both sides, the winners always seem to decide the outcome. General Smedly Butler was right, "War is a racket!" Sadly, the world seems to be all for dragging innocent soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines into kangaroo courts and summarily executing them just because they're guilty of happenstance and on the losing side. Why not government officials, powerful industry, and the wealthy elite that started it? After all, anybody lower than the latter is simply a pawn in the game.
If you believe that America and her allies only fight just wars, are not imperialistic, and are infallible, I truly feel sorry for you because you cannot see the crimes you're permitting throughout the world and history. I'm not sure whether it's sad or criminal the way people parrot western propaganda. In the end, I realize that it's not your fault. Just like the people you despise and think should be summarily executed, you've been propagandized just like the ones you hate.
Cheers,
bolillo_loco
Last edited by bolillo_loco; 10-08-2012 at 10:16 PM..
Reason: I am no Rhodes scholar.
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Just what the hell is one guard going to do against the Nazi regime? Those of you that say you would do this and you would do that, but if you were in his position you really don't know what you would do.
In his place you probably would have done just as he did.
