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1. They're dead and they weren't gods or really fathers....just men. 2. If they were living in these times they wouldn't be the same people they were during the 18th century...who can tell what they would think?
Great point! All this "Founding Father" worship makes me a little disturbed. Why do I really care what a bunch of slave holders and mortal men, who were not particularly religious, fallible, farmers, and really just well off men who were born into WASP families - why do I care what they think?
First, let's remember that the Founding Fathers themselves represented a broad spectrum of opinion. If it's skewed by the point that all were male and representative of the dominant ethnicity of their day, so what! It was the same for any of the now-tested democracies which were emerging at that time.
And they were all, to some degree, entrepreneurs. The "exploitation" of the day revolved primarily around slavery because it represented the strongest abuse of an imbalance in power the nation simply could not resolve at the time. but beyond that, every family, slave or free, bore much greater responsibility for its own subsistence.
Personal religious convictions aside, they were all secular -- I can't think of a single clergyman who played a prominent role in the framing of the Republic. As such, they had a disproportionate stake in human progress.
And I believe that if they could return and have the benefit of some time to study what has evolved in the intervening two-centuries-plus, they would take particular pride in the points that the Constitution has required so little modification, and that the wounds of Civil War healed as well as they did.
And I don't buy into the scare story that the nation is about to be rent asunder; we have a deep split between two groups. A portion of each is guided by ideological conviction, and a great mass in between by realpolitik, (but a lot of the personal agendae involve unrealistic expectations or "principles" that simply aren't enforceable -- in both camps and a lot of the center). Those will fall by the wayside, but I fear a lot of effort is going to be wasted by fools tying down safety valves -- or at least trying to do so.
But I'll save my last (and strongest) words for an agreement with Mr. KaaBoom that the current state of the Supreme Court is an embarrassment. With the retirement of Justices O'Connor and Stevens, only Justice Scalia projects any serious image of independence and integrity. Thomas, Ginsburg and Sotomayer appear to be little more than rubber stamps. And the power-grab represented by the so-called "swing" vote of Chief Justice Roberts in the Obamacare decision clears the way for further federal meddling in an area where it doesn't belong, just as with the Kelso (eminent domain) decision of eight years ago.
I doubt that these mistakes can be rectified as easily as was the case with the Schechter (National Recovery Act) decision of the Thirties, but I'll be delighted if I'm wrong.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 05-13-2013 at 08:14 PM..
Wiki lists There were 53 signatories to the Continental Association;
56 who signed the Declaration of Independence,
40 who signed their name to the Constitution, 13 who left the convention without signing and 3 who outright refused to sign.
and 48 others regarding as "Founders"
That's some 154 men, give or take individuals who appear on one of more of the three lists of founding figures. Anyone who cares to claim that they can divine the opinions of 50 much less 150 very distinct individuals born in the 18th century and claim that they can to extrapolate those opinions reveal some insight that these very distinct and often contentious individuals, born in the 18th century would have about a nation some 200+ years into the future is either fooling themselves or thinking that the rest of us must be.
I believe they would be abhorred at how far this nation has fallen. How our so called leaders have do blatantly sold this country out to special interests. The total disregard for the constitution. How we've fallen from a nation with good solid Christian foundation trusting in Christ to a humanist nation trusting in money.
I think they would be shocked to see how american citizens at large are ignorant, apathetic, and uneducated despite the resources available (there is no excuse). How multitudes of people are holding their hand out to collect from the public treasury. How the populace at large simply handed the power of the people over to the government. How gullible the majority are about the news media in the propaganda machine.
The list goes on and on.
What they did understand was God's Word. A nation that turns their back on God in Christ has written their own fate on the wall.
Nations that forget God will be forgotten. Do not be surprised if you see foreign troops on American soil. Possibly Chinese troops coming to claim what we've given to them when we show up empty handed to pay the trillions owed in our pampered service-based, welfare economy.
The Bible says the borrower is slave to the lender.
I wouldn't bother with concerning yourself with retirement saving or upgrades on your home. I would recommending turning to God through JESUS Christ. He's the only one that can save from what is coming. This nation has embraced every abomination under the sun, and I do believe we are RIPE for judgment.
They would see that the landowners still control gov't, except now they do not have to be landowners to have the wealth to be part of the controlling class. No big surprise to them, the common person in the democratic political system still is in the dark (voluntarily and involuntarily, intentionally and by-default) as to what is really going on. As is intended, the rich rule.........the common person gets some bones to keep them happy and in-line. Any other way would be a failure and breakdown of society and law-and-order.
I believe they would be abhorred at how far this nation has fallen.
Yeah, after they got over the shock of only taking 3 hours to get from Richmond to Philadelphia instead of a week.
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How our so called leaders have do blatantly sold this country out to special interests.
This is the kind if crap that I find particularly hysterical... what was the 3/5th Compromise about other than "selling out" their most basic principles to special interests? Hell the entire constitution was crafted around special interests. Big states vs small, slave vs free! Yikes!
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How we've fallen from a nation with good solid Christian foundation trusting in Christ to a humanist nation trusting in money.
Slavery was a good solid Christian foundation? Interesting.
Quote:
Anyone who cares to claim that they can divine the opinions of 50 much less 150 very distinct individuals born in the 18th century and claim that they can to extrapolate those opinions reveal some insight that these very distinct and often contentious individuals, born in the 18th century would have about a nation some 200+ years into the future is either fooling themselves or thinking that the rest of us must be.
You know, if you wish to preach, there is a religion forum available for such doings. This is the History forum. History is supposed to be religiously neutral.
They would see that the landowners still control gov't, except now they do not have to be landowners to have the wealth to be part of the controlling class.
Blount, Dayton, Fitzsimons, Gorham, Robert Morris, Washington and Wilson were land speculators.
Bedford, Blair, Clymer, Dayton, Fitzsimons, Franklin, King, Langdon, Robert Morris, Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, and Sherman formed the proto-Wall St faction.
Bassett, Blair, Blount, Johnson, Butler, Carroll, Jenifer, Jefferson, Madison where the Monsanto, Archer Daniels, Midland of their time.
Let's get real about who these fine fellows actually were.
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