U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 11-23-2019, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
43,712 posts, read 19,176,763 times
Reputation: 19488

Advertisements

I have found Ulysses Grant to be a difficult historical figure in terms of gaining a full understanding of his talents. Some of the things he wrote and said were impressively insightful, at other times he comes across as Bobo the Simpleminded.

One thing I have learned is that it is an error to embrace the image often associated with Grant, that of being an unimaginative plodder whose chief virtue was tenacity. Many still believe that he finished last in his class at West Point, but in fact he was 21st out of 39. While there, he indulged in his hobby as a painter, completing many works, nine of which have survived. Some samples:





Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-24-2019, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Texas
36,356 posts, read 20,038,817 times
Reputation: 22040
Smears against Grant are mostly "sour grapes" comments from former confederates, Southern apologists and their offspring. Grant defeated every confederate he faced and it still stings 150 years later.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2019, 07:38 AM
 
126 posts, read 23,885 times
Reputation: 168
Grant's memoirs are rightly considered a classic, and he wrote them while he was dying of cancer.
Sales of the books allowed his family to recover from financial ruin.
To me, despite his not too successful presidency, he is one of the greatest Americans.

Last edited by USC1986; 11-25-2019 at 07:38 AM.. Reason: punctuation
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2019, 08:20 AM
 
1,103 posts, read 672,786 times
Reputation: 1757
Impressive works for an amateur hobby painter.

Grant is often vilified by both sides. He was a product of the times and had to deal with difficult, complex issues of a growing US, pre and post Civil War.

He deeply admired Lincoln, and touchingly showed so at his funeral, in his characteristically restrained way.

He was a case of a man whose traits made for a great general but poor politician.

ETA: I’m not surprised he painted and sketched, and well. In some respects, he always struck me as having an introspective, sensitive, artist’s soul. Wouldn’t surprise me if he also suffered from bouts of depression so characteristic of many of the highly intelligent - including, I suspect, Sherman.

Last edited by mingna; 11-25-2019 at 09:02 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-26-2019, 06:24 AM
Status: "Netflix is for losers.." (set 12 days ago)
 
1,709 posts, read 1,059,800 times
Reputation: 3212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
Smears against Grant are mostly "sour grapes" comments from former confederates, Southern apologists and their offspring. Grant defeated every confederate he faced and it still stings 150 years later.
I don't think most of the Grant criticism has to do with Civil War generalship.. it's more about all the (subordinate) corruption within his presidency. And Grant admitted to/recognized his errors in 'judgement' regarding that..

Incidentally, his paintings are pretty good.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-26-2019, 09:45 AM
 
1,103 posts, read 672,786 times
Reputation: 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babe_Ruth View Post
I don't think most of the Grant criticism has to do with Civil War generalship.. it's more about all the (subordinate) corruption within his presidency. And Grant admitted to/recognized his errors in 'judgement' regarding that..

Incidentally, his paintings are pretty good.

His loyalty to those he respected, trusted, or cared for served him well as a general, but also made him vulnerable to rampant corrupt patronage and nepotism in his presidency.

The landscape painting is in fairly standard style for the period, but the sketch of the horse evokes hints of later period Cezanne.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-27-2019, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
43,712 posts, read 19,176,763 times
Reputation: 19488
Quote:
Originally Posted by mingna View Post
In some respects, he always struck me as having an introspective, sensitive, artist’s soul. Wouldn’t surprise me if he also suffered from bouts of depression so characteristic of many of the highly intelligent - including, I suspect, Sherman.
Grant was famous for always showing a calm, low key demeanor regardless of what might be happening. Sherman was much more mercurial, given to highs and lows.

Grant was primarily a family man, he deeply cherished his wife and children. The Grants had a very happy marriage.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-27-2019, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
23,961 posts, read 15,461,222 times
Reputation: 34752
Quote:
Originally Posted by USC1986 View Post
Grant's memoirs are rightly considered a classic, and he wrote them while he was dying of cancer.
Sales of the books allowed his family to recover from financial ruin.
To me, despite his not too successful presidency, he is one of the greatest Americans.

Well he had a lot of help from Mark Twain. He wrote his memoirs to provide for his wife after he died. Mark Twain contacted him, and offered to help him. He apparently gave him a great deal of help.

Twain admired Grant.

Last edited by mensaguy; 11-28-2019 at 03:27 PM.. Reason: Fixed quote tag. Spelling counts.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2019, 03:29 PM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
11,811 posts, read 11,343,965 times
Reputation: 7738
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
Well he had a lot of help from Mark Twain. He wrote his memoirs to provide for his wife after he died. Mark Twain contacted him, and offered to help him. He apparently gave him a great deal of help.

Twain admired Grant.
I don't know about Twain offering any help writing the memoirs, but he did agree to publish the work to make sure Julia Grant received the income from the books (I believe it was two volumes).
__________________
Moderator posts are in RED.
City-Data Terms of Service: http://www.city-data.com/terms.html
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2019, 07:13 AM
 
1,103 posts, read 672,786 times
Reputation: 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Grant was famous for always showing a calm, low key demeanor regardless of what might be happening. Sherman was much more mercurial, given to highs and lows.
Sherman seemed much more of a black and white thinker, which may have allowed him to successfully implement his total war strategy in his March to the Sea.

They both probably suffered chronic depression throughout their lives. May have contributed to Grant’s reputation as a problem drinker.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Grant was primarily a family man, he deeply cherished his wife and children. The Grants had a very happy marriage.
Were he not so devoted to his wife on April 15, 1865, Lincoln may have survived.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top