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What if Poland had yielded the Polish Corridor to Hitler in 1939, without war, and then either (1) Poland let Germany troops occupy all or part of Poland, without war, or (2) the UK had stayed out of any German-Polish war, meaning that Germany in 1939 could have taken Poland and wouldn’t have had to face a war with the UK? I assume that Hitler would have left Western Europe alone then.
How would Europe have fared:
Would Hitler have treated Poland like he treated Bohemia/Moravia: an oppressed protectorate, but without the death and destruction that Poland faced?
Long-term, how would the situation have been worse than what Eastern Europe faced with Communism after 1945? Or would it have been worse? Would Germans eventually have demanded a return of democracy?
What if Poland had yielded the Polish Corridor to Hitler in 1939, without war, and then either (1) Poland let Germany troops occupy all or part of Poland, without war, or (2) the UK had stayed out of any German-Polish war, meaning that Germany in 1939 could have taken Poland and wouldn’t have had to face a war with the UK? I assume that Hitler would have left Western Europe alone then.
How would Europe have fared:
Would Hitler have treated Poland like he treated Bohemia/Moravia: an oppressed protectorate, but without the death and destruction that Poland faced?
Long-term, how would the situation have been worse than what Eastern Europe faced with Communism after 1945? Or would it have been worse? Would Germans eventually have demanded a return of democracy?
What if Poland had yielded the Polish Corridor to Hitler in 1939, without war, and then either (1) Poland let Germany troops occupy all or part of Poland, without war, or (2) the UK had stayed out of any German-Polish war, meaning that Germany in 1939 could have taken Poland and wouldn’t have had to face a war with the UK? I assume that Hitler would have left Western Europe alone then.
How would Europe have fared:
Would Hitler have treated Poland like he treated Bohemia/Moravia: an oppressed protectorate, but without the death and destruction that Poland faced?
Long-term, how would the situation have been worse than what Eastern Europe faced with Communism after 1945? Or would it have been worse? Would Germans eventually have demanded a return of democracy?
There would be no appeasing Hitler. He wanted war, and Poland was just a pretext to get one. Every inch given was never enough. It only would give Germany more time to build up its troops and armaments. Hitler WANTED a war with the West.
If given up without a fight, Poland would still have its Jewish citizens (among others) rounded up and killed (as Hitler did in all of the countries conquered), and its majority Slavic people treated as subhuman slaves - the Untermensch - the same way the Germans treated the Soviet people, even those who wished to join him.
Only without a fight there would have been more German troops alive to torture, kill, and conquer other nations to the East and West.
The "protectorate" only applied to the Germanic people. 80,000 Jews from the "protectorate" were killed in the Holocaust. Bohemia and Moravia were intended to be turned into Germanic lands, and the Slavs and ethnic Czechs driven out or killed.
Would it have been worse than under communism? Communism may have had levels of personal and political oppression, but not to the extent of Nazi policies of Genocide, Slavery, and Ethnic Cleansing.
Last edited by RocketSci; 11-20-2021 at 07:41 PM..
Hitler was a cult leader on a national scale. All cult leaders follow a predictable trajectory, one of its defining features being an insatiable hunger for more and more control of more and more subjects. It all culminates in some sort of implosion of the inner circle (with the leader at the center), and of course wider destruction of the greater community (nation, in this case) as consequence.
Nothing would have appeased Hitler. The U.K. and the West tried exactly that early on!
Would Poland have fared better if it had yielded to Hitler out the gate? No. It would have all played out with comparable destruction and mayhem, due to factors mentioned by RocketSci. There is always a limit to how much humiliation and abuse anyone is willing to take, regardless of the consequences.
There would be no appeasing Hitler. He wanted war, and Poland was just a pretext to get one. Every inch given was never enough. It only would give Germany more time to build up its troops and armaments. Hitler WANTED a war with the West.
To start, a non-aggression pact, signed by Hitler on January 26, 1934, existed between Poland and Germany. Both sides adhered to this agreement without issue. In fact, relations between Germany and Poland were such that the Germans did not object when Polish forces participated in the dismemberment of Czechoslovakia in October 1938 with the Polish military annexation of the Teschen region. This period of peaceful coexistence remained until the beginning of 1939.
At the end of January 1939, a series of meetings took place in Warsaw between German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop and Polish Foreign Minister Jozef Beck. The discussions were aimed at reaching a diplomatic solution to the outstanding issues between the two countries; namely the port city of Danzig and the isolation of East Prussia from Germany proper. Beck was told that Germany wished the return of Danzig as well as rights to build a highway (which would be owned and controlled by Germany) across the Polish Corridor to link East Prussia with the Reich. In exchange, Poland would be invited to join the Axis and participate in a joint German-Polish invasion of Russia. Additionally, Poland would be awarded territory in the Ukraine as well as Subcarpathian Ruthenia. Beck refused to consider the return of Danzig until such time as Germany could actually do more than "promise" to give Poland the aforementioned territories. But the door was left open for future talks.
On March 21st, six days after Germany marched into what remained of Czechoslovakia, Ribbentrop contacted Beck via the Polish Ambassador in Berlin. Ribbentrop stated that the only way Poland could possibly remain a sovereign state was if she joined the Axis and conceded to Germany's territorial demands. Beck began to panic and put out feelers to the British and French in hopes they would offer some kind of assistance to Poland. Despite this, Hitler instructed Ribbentrop to keep negotiations going stating "for the present, the Fuhrer does not intend to solve the Polish question. However it must be worked on". Hitler's end goal was the restoration of the border as it existed in 1914 and the resettlement of the Polish population of this region into ethnic Polish areas.
During a speech he gave on March 31, 1939, British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain issued a "guarantee" to the Poland that should she be attacked by Germany, Britain would do all in its' power to assist her in resisting and added that the French would do the same. What the Poles were unaware of was the fact that neither the British or the French believed that Poland would realistically be able to retain Danzig and fully expected a negotiated return of the city to German control. On April 2nd, Foreign Minister Beck visited London and was asked about the situation in Danzig. Concerned that the British might withdraw their guarantee, Beck purposely withheld the fact that negotiations between Germany and Poland were at a standstill. Instead, he told the British that Danzig had become a powerful symbol of freedom to Poland. The only acceptable solution to the issue would be if Germany agreed to both free government in Danzig and the safeguarding of Polish rights within the city. Beck added that if the British were willing to agree in principle on this point, then Poland would enter into discussions with Romania to form an anti-German military alliance. Beck also offered to assist Britain in the event Germany attacked, Belgium, Holland or Switzerland. This was music to Chamberlain's ears. He fully expected that this would be enough to hold Germany in check and forestall the commitment of British military power in defense of Poland. This was of critical importance to Chamberlain because he had been advised when he issued his guarantee that it was the opinion of both the British and French Chiefs of Staff that "there was nothing either of us could do to save Poland".
Completely unaware of this assessment, Beck left for Warsaw fully believing that the British and French would come to Poland's rescue militarily should Germany either move against Danzig or Poland itself. This false and one can even say, deceitful bit of hope the British government had given to Beck, only strengthened their resolve to abandon any further negotiations with Germany and resist at all costs. Polish newspapers began to fill with anti-German propaganda and statements about how the Polish Army would crush the Germans as easily and quickly as they had the Red Army back in 1920, especially now that they had the backing of the British and French. The fact that the Poles were living in a dream world was only reinforced by statements made by a French military attache visiting Poland who said "I hope that Beck will be left under no delusion as to the value of the assistance that could be afforded by Britain and France. The Poles would have to rely entirely on their own resources to defend their own territory". Though this was and had always been the position of both the British and French governments the moment Chamberlain announced his guarantee, this was never clarified for the Poles even as tensions mounted between Germany and Poland. Clueless, the Poles simply dug their heels in deeper and deeper.
On August 11, 1939, Hitler met with Carl Burckhardt, High Commissioner of the League of Nations for the City of Danzig. During this lengthy conversation, Hitler repeated his commitment to try and reach a negotiated settlement with Poland over Danzig and the Polish Corridor. He also made the following statements which he knew Burckhardt would likely relay to both the British and French: "Above all I want nothing from the West; nothing today and nothing tomorrow. I desire nothing from the thickly settled regions of the world...all the notions that are ascribed to me by other people are inventions. However, I must have a free hand in the East. To repeat: it is a question of grain and timber which I can find only outside of Europe".Hitler then added this: "Everything I undertake is directed against Russia. If the West is too stupid and too blind to comprehend this I will be forced to reach an understanding with the Russians, turn and strike the West, and then after their defeat turn back against the Soviet Union with my collected strength. I need the Ukraine and with that no one can starve us out as they did in the last war." What is most puzzling about this last statement is that Burckhardt, for reasons unknown, never actually relayed it to representatives of the British and French governments. One wonders if they had been aware of this comment whether it might have made the parties involved rethink their approaches.
So to sum up, there was a chance, perhaps slim, of settling the matter of Danzig without a war. As it stood, Poland had three options, none of them ideal: reach an agreement with Germany and join the Axis, seek a protective alliance with the Soviet Union, or fight it out with Germany. Had the British and French governments been more honest with the Poles regarding what the "guarantees" and "assistance" being offered really meant, Poland could have made a more informed choice in the matter. Unfortunately, that didn't happen and, much like with World War I, things escalated into a conflict much larger than it should have been, where everyone got exactly the opposite of what they really wanted.
To start, a non-aggression pact, signed by Hitler on January 26, 1934, existed between Poland and Germany. Both sides adhered to this agreement without issue. In fact, relations between Germany and Poland were such that the Germans did not object when Polish forces participated in the dismemberment of Czechoslovakia in October 1938 with the Polish military annexation of the Teschen region. This period of peaceful coexistence remained until the beginning of 1939.
At the end of January 1939, a series of meetings took place in Warsaw between German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop and Polish Foreign Minister Jozef Beck. The discussions were aimed at reaching a diplomatic solution to the outstanding issues between the two countries; namely the port city of Danzig and the isolation of East Prussia from Germany proper. Beck was told that Germany wished the return of Danzig as well as rights to build a highway (which would be owned and controlled by Germany) across the Polish Corridor to link East Prussia with the Reich. In exchange, Poland would be invited to join the Axis and participate in a joint German-Polish invasion of Russia. Additionally, Poland would be awarded territory in the Ukraine as well as Subcarpathian Ruthenia. Beck refused to consider the return of Danzig until such time as Germany could actually do more than "promise" to give Poland the aforementioned territories. But the door was left open for future talks.
On March 21st, six days after Germany marched into what remained of Czechoslovakia, Ribbentrop contacted Beck via the Polish Ambassador in Berlin. Ribbentrop stated that the only way Poland could possibly remain a sovereign state was if she joined the Axis and conceded to Germany's territorial demands. Beck began to panic and put out feelers to the British and French in hopes they would offer some kind of assistance to Poland. Despite this, Hitler instructed Ribbentrop to keep negotiations going stating "for the present, the Fuhrer does not intend to solve the Polish question. However it must be worked on". Hitler's end goal was the restoration of the border as it existed in 1914 and the resettlement of the Polish population of this region into ethnic Polish areas.
During a speech he gave on March 31, 1939, British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain issued a "guarantee" to the Poland that should she be attacked by Germany, Britain would do all in its' power to assist her in resisting and added that the French would do the same. What the Poles were unaware of was the fact that neither the British or the French believed that Poland would realistically be able to retain Danzig and fully expected a negotiated return of the city to German control. On April 2nd, Foreign Minister Beck visited London and was asked about the situation in Danzig. Concerned that the British might withdraw their guarantee, Beck purposely withheld the fact that negotiations between Germany and Poland were at a standstill. Instead, he told the British that Danzig had become a powerful symbol of freedom to Poland. The only acceptable solution to the issue would be if Germany agreed to both free government in Danzig and the safeguarding of Polish rights within the city. Beck added that if the British were willing to agree in principle on this point, then Poland would enter into discussions with Romania to form an anti-German military alliance. Beck also offered to assist Britain in the event Germany attacked, Belgium, Holland or Switzerland. This was music to Chamberlain's ears. He fully expected that this would be enough to hold Germany in check and forestall the commitment of British military power in defense of Poland. This was of critical importance to Chamberlain because he had been advised when he issued his guarantee that it was the opinion of both the British and French Chiefs of Staff that "there was nothing either of us could do to save Poland".
Completely unaware of this assessment, Beck left for Warsaw fully believing that the British and French would come to Poland's rescue militarily should Germany either move against Danzig or Poland itself. This false and one can even say, deceitful bit of hope the British government had given to Beck, only strengthened their resolve to abandon any further negotiations with Germany and resist at all costs. Polish newspapers began to fill with anti-German propaganda and statements about how the Polish Army would crush the Germans as easily and quickly as they had the Red Army back in 1920, especially now that they had the backing of the British and French. The fact that the Poles were living in a dream world was only reinforced by statements made by a French military attache visiting Poland who said "I hope that Beck will be left under no delusion as to the value of the assistance that could be afforded by Britain and France. The Poles would have to rely entirely on their own resources to defend their own territory". Though this was and had always been the position of both the British and French governments the moment Chamberlain announced his guarantee, this was never clarified for the Poles even as tensions mounted between Germany and Poland. Clueless, the Poles simply dug their heels in deeper and deeper.
On August 11, 1939, Hitler met with Carl Burckhardt, High Commissioner of the League of Nations for the City of Danzig. During this lengthy conversation, Hitler repeated his commitment to try and reach a negotiated settlement with Poland over Danzig and the Polish Corridor. He also made the following statements which he knew Burckhardt would likely relay to both the British and French: "Above all I want nothing from the West; nothing today and nothing tomorrow. I desire nothing from the thickly settled regions of the world...all the notions that are ascribed to me by other people are inventions. However, I must have a free hand in the East. To repeat: it is a question of grain and timber which I can find only outside of Europe".Hitler then added this: "Everything I undertake is directed against Russia. If the West is too stupid and too blind to comprehend this I will be forced to reach an understanding with the Russians, turn and strike the West, and then after their defeat turn back against the Soviet Union with my collected strength. I need the Ukraine and with that no one can starve us out as they did in the last war." What is most puzzling about this last statement is that Burckhardt, for reasons unknown, never actually relayed it to representatives of the British and French governments. One wonders if they had been aware of this comment whether it might have made the parties involved rethink their approaches.
So to sum up, there was a chance, perhaps slim, of settling the matter of Danzig without a war. As it stood, Poland had three options, none of them ideal: reach an agreement with Germany and join the Axis, seek a protective alliance with the Soviet Union, or fight it out with Germany. Had the British and French governments been more honest with the Poles regarding what the "guarantees" and "assistance" being offered really meant, Poland could have made a more informed choice in the matter. Unfortunately, that didn't happen and, much like with World War I, things escalated into a conflict much larger than it should have been, where everyone got exactly the opposite of what they really wanted.
Disagree that there was any German intent to "settle" Danzig short of full German control, occupation, and expulsion of Poles, meaning loss of Poland's only sea access. The German Lebensraum policies, or territorial expansion to the East and removal of non-Germans, was always part of Hitler's plans. "No war" may have been a short-term option for Great Britain, but not to Germany's neighbors, who had absolutely everything to lose under direct German rule.
i think that WW2 germinated between Britain wanting Russian resources and Comintern wanting world socialist revolution, Germany was just a tool.
Germany was the only nation among the three that lacked access to resources, and fought to gain access to the sea (Danzig, Netherlands, France), farmland (Poland, Ukraine), and oil (Romania, North Africa). Lack of German access to oil and petroleum products was one of the turning points of the war.
During WW2 Germany was the threat to everyone, and in no way a "tool" of Britain or the USSR.
It wasn't until after WW2 that a defeated Germany became a focal point in the Cold War between the Western Alliance and the Soviets.
If Poland would have rolled over for Hitler, he would have been even more embolden to take over the rest of Europe, thinking they would roll over too.
So, yes, it would/could have been a different deal there. But NOT in a good way...
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