Houston ranked 5th in metro population (Dallas, Fort Worth: university, estate, metropolitan)

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by A&M Bulldawg

I didn't understand your last statement, sorry.

which one? The one about Houston getting there?

Houston's core is gonna get more faster than Dallas because everything major is there. Dallas Fort Worth has good jobs, entertainment, etc all over the place, the burbs are too attractive to have focus remain on the core. DART is gonna be expanding all over the DFW metro making transportation easier, and thus living in the burbs even more attractive. Houstons rail is mainly confined to the core, so even if more comes, its the central core that is gonna be more attractive to new residents

[SouthernBoy205]

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by HtownLove

Houston may get there long before Dallas because the Dallas burbs are so darn attractive and Dart is just gonna make being spread out easier.

From a residentail standpoint, yes. But DART can help bring more jobs back to downtown Dallas since it is (and will be more so) easy to commute from the burbs to Downtown and Uptown.

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by justme02

From a residentail standpoint, yes. But DART can help bring more jobs back to downtown Dallas since it is (and will be more so) easy to commute from the burbs to Downtown and Uptown.

getting people to Downtown easier is not going to bring jobs to downtown. If downtown creates incentives for businesses to open up downtown then businesses/jobs would be created downtown, but DART is going to make business appear downtown. What Dart is gonna do is make it easier for people who live in the burbs and don't have a car to get to work easier, which is what I am saying in the first place, it is making the already attractive burbs more attractive to residents, even those who don't have a car.

[Spade]

Originally Posted by HtownLove

metropolitan area definition.
There used to be Primary MSA's and combined MSA's (what we now call a CSA)

the new definition includes more area for some (like New York and DFW) or less less (like Boston, ATL)

The old metros were more like what we call metro divisions now. Dallas and Fort Worth are both Metro divisions in the DFW MSA, but before the change they were MSA's in the combined statistical area/ CMSA.

I list plenty excerpts in the thread

Interesting Changes to Metros after 2000 census. I wonder if they will upend and redo the list again after this one

I see I responded to that in the thread. I think you are misreading what definitions actually are. MSA is MSA. Has been that way since they started using it in the 1980s. But PMSA was nothing more than divisions of an entire metro area. They don't use those anymore but the only definition that has changed was the CMSA's are now CSA's. Basically Dallas-Fort Worth has been an MSA a bit longer than 10 years.

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by A&M Bulldawg

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

In my opinion having rail is always a good thing.

In creating dense neighborhoods? no rail has nothing that enhances density, it just makes travel in already dense neighborhoods easier.

People who don't like driving or don't have cars like to live in areas with good public transport. Having good public transport way out to the burbs makes the area more cohesive, but at the same time makes the outer reaches more attractive.

With DART the entire metro is gonna increase in density, while in Houston the inner loop is gonna be where all the action is.

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by Spade

I see I responded to that in the thread. I think you are misreading what definitions actually are. MSA is MSA. Has been that way since they started using it in the 1980s. But PMSA was nothing more than divisions of an entire metro area. They don't use those anymore but the only definition that has changed was the CMSA's are now CSA's. Basically Dallas-Fort Worth has been an MSA a bit longer than 10 years.

did you read the definition or the articles from the census website where they actually said they were changing the definition?

It is right there in plain English, I cannot misread when it says flat out that in 2003 the Dallas primary metropolitan area and the FW pMSA are combining to form a new metro area.

PMSA's were not divisions of metro areas they were the metro areas, CMSA's were the ones that were divided. anyway look at the chart, it gives the numbers for the CMSA's and below that it gives the PMSA's

The NY metro was smaller than LA metro, but the NY cMSA was larger.

[Spade]

Originally Posted by HtownLove

getting people to Downtown easier is not going to bring jobs to downtown. If downtown creates incentives for businesses to open up downtown then businesses/jobs would be created downtown, but DART is going to make business appear downtown. What Dart is gonna do is make it easier for people who live in the burbs and don't have a car to get to work easier, which is what I am saying in the first place, it is making the already attractive burbs more attractive to residents, even those who don't have a car.

True. But it can also help spur a revitalization in the core. Similar to the Dallas, the DC area also has a commuter based train system that allows for people to live in the suburbs to get to downtown DC quicker and easier. It is making suburban living more attractive as a result. It is also making the city more attractive as well as there are new residential units growing like weeds around the stations. I see a similar sequence happening in Dallas. In fact, you could see it around the new Baylor Medical Dart station. While Dallas and the suburbs do not have a great many of TOD's now (Mockingbird is pretty good), they are planned and ready to be built.

[Spade]

Originally Posted by HtownLove

did you read the definition or the articles from the census website where they actually said they were changing the definition?

It is right there in plain English, I cannot misread when it says flat out that in 2003 the Dallas primary metropolitan area and the FW pMSA are combining to form a new metro area.

You did misread or misuse it. PMSA was nothing more than divisions. It had nothing to do with the entire MSA. It was just part of the larger CMSA both which is not used anymore. PMSA's were in fact divisions. The Dallas-Irving-Plano PMSA was a division of the Dallas-Fort Worth CMSA. But MSA has always been around.

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by Spade

True. But it can also help spur a revitalization in the core. Similar to the Dallas, the DC area also has a commuter based train system that allows for people to live in the suburbs to get to downtown DC quicker and easier. It is making suburban living more attractive as a result. It is also making the city more attractive as well as there are new residential units growing like weeds around the stations. I see a similar sequence happening in Dallas. In fact, you could see it around the new Baylor Medical Dart station. While Dallas and the suburbs do not have a great many of TOD's now (Mockingbird is pretty good), they are planned and ready to be built.

ok, that I can agree with because in Houston the area along the rail has been revitalised. I am not sure about bringing back jobs from the burbs like she said, but certainly it will spark revitalization along the route, but remember the route extends to the burbs too so those are gonna develop also.

The difference between DC and DFW is that DC has very expensive burbs and a super expensive core. DFW has multiple cores that are fairly reasonably priced compared to DC, and burbs that cheap (got some expensive ones too, but on a whole they are cheap).

I just think that Dallas's burbs are just too attractive (They are nice, they have a ton of jobs, they are growing super quickly) to be stunted by the City of Dallas, and the rail is not going to distract from that because the rail is coming to the burbs too.