Houston's New Peers? (lofts, rail, stadium)

[blkgiraffe]

Originally Posted by Spade

I never understood how you build neighborhoods with no sidewalks.

I agree. Worst planning ever.

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by Spade

I do hear what you're saying. But in the strictest of terms on what is urban and what is not on these forums and usually among developers. It actually does have a certain look. But it doesn't need to have a similar look. If the area is walkable, dense, vibrant, and built for human interaction, it's urban.

Those are general characteristics common in cities today, they are not requirements for cities tho, and they never have been. They are just characteristics of an era (The golden age of cities, if you will) when cities went from areas of a few thousand people, to areas of a few million) not a requirements.

Yes, when you gather people in area to conduct business you do get more interaction and all that other stuff, but if a place has less than another that does not mean it is not urban. Urban differentiates areas in the city from, Rural and suburban areas, but just because one city has more activity than the other doesn't mean the other is suburban.

Remember NY didn't always have 8M people. Sure you can say that NY is more of a city than (Insert city here) but that doesn't mean the other cities are suburban.
Cities are centers of commerce, and centers of commerce are USUALLY more dense and more walkable than the centers of habitation around it (that is a fair comparison) but telling which areas are urban and not based on its resemblance to Manhattan is not fair.

Does it have to look the same, no. That's where I think that the State-Thomas area in Dallas possibly has the best in the state and Midtown is growing that way.

I am not familiar with a State- Thomas area, but I doubt that it matches the western Inner loop area specifically, the Montrose, Heights, Museum, Medical Center, and Braeswood areas of the Loop.

One city having larger roads and single family homes does not make it less urban than the other.

I agree. Look at this neighborhood in Chicago.

Now most of Chicago's single family home neighborhoods inside the city have street front parking instead of having driveways but what does that matter. Even San Francisco can pull that off and they are just as urban if not more than Chicago. But they do exist in Chicago and that doesn't make that neighborhood and the city less urban. In fact, that second link is not that much different than what you will find in Houston's inner loop.

Yeah, that is basically how the areas in the heights, Montrose, third ward and Braeswood look.

here is 3rd ward:

Google Maps

Here is Braeswood:
Google Maps

Here is West U:
Google Maps

Well the hoods with sidewalks. Contrary to popular belief, most of Chicago neighborhood sidewalks are pretty freaking narrow. But they exist. Unlike in Houston where the sidewalk disappears and you have to walk in the street and by miracle, they reappear again. IMO, if your neighborhood is not walkable or pedestrian friendly, it's not really an urban (that we define it as on these forums) neighborhood nor does it have the chance to be one.

Like this one.
Greenway Plaza, Houston, TX - Google Maps

Side walks are a liability. people can up out of it. You can't force people to have sidewalks and you can't fault the neighborhood for people not wanting them.

by the way, that link took me to 5th ward. I dunno if that is what you meant to take me to, but it is not Greenway Plaza and it is not in the loop.

I can't call that urban.
However, this one, I can.
Greenway Plaza, Houston, TX - Google Maps

I never understood how you build neighborhoods with no sidewalks.

again sidewalks are a liability, that is why people vote them down.

also That pic is again not greenway plaza. Dunno why they are labeled as such.

when we say inner loop development this is what we mean:

Google Maps

This is Greenway Plaza:
Google Maps
Google Maps

notice how many of the houses in Greenway nearly touch each other:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll...12,277.65,,0,0

Uptown has the same type of development but it is featureless.

Pretty much most areas of the South west look like this:
Google Maps
along the main roads usually are strip malls and apartment complexes but behind them all look like this ^^

[Spade]

Originally Posted by HtownLove

Those are general characteristics common in cities today, they are not requirements for cities tho, and they never have been. They are just characteristics of an era (The golden age of cities, if you will) when cities went from areas of a few thousand people, to areas of a few million) not a requirements.

Those are pretty much the general characteristics of every city around the world outside of the American sunbelt cities. I do understand why they are built the way they are and when they experienced it's greatest growth. I have no doubt that if Houston grew up around the same time as New Orleans or even Chicago that it would be a much more dense city now. But it didn't happen and people from urban cities have a love/hate relationship with Houston especially New Orleans residents. There is a reason why New Orleanians refer to Houston as a giant Metarie which is suburban in it's own.

Urban differentiates areas in the city from, Rural and suburban areas, but just because one city has more activity than the other doesn't mean the other is suburban.

Agree to disagree but that's the literal term that mostly everyone knows as urban. But the urban enthusiasts and developers know there is a difference between an urban neighborhood and development like you see in most of the newer development inside the loop and suburban neighborhoods and developments. They wouldn't focus so much on density and interaction as well as how walkable the area needs to be before they build the area. You don't have to be Manhattan to be urban. There are many cities out there I find more urban than Houston and they aren't even close to Manhattan. Such as Washington D.C., Baltimore, Cincinnati, and the rest of the nation honestly.To expect a Manhattan in this country means that person lives in a dream world.

Remember NY didn't always have 8M people. Sure you can say that NY is more of a city than (Insert city here) but that doesn't mean the other cities are suburban.
Cities are centers of commerce, and centers of commerce are USUALLY more dense and more walkable than the centers of habitation around it (that is a fair comparison) but telling which areas are urban and not based on its resemblance to Manhattan is not fair.

Again, I never stated otherwise that if a city isn't NY, it means other cities are suburban. In fact, all cities are urban under the literal terms. But again, to enthusiasts and developers, most of Houston is classified as suburban in nature. Does not make it a suburb but it has more of what people know as suburban characteristics as opposed to urban characteristics. Houston's density rivals Chicago post WW2 suburbs like Naperville or Schaumburg than it does Chicago itself.

I am not familiar with a State- Thomas area, but I doubt that it matches the western Inner loop area specifically, the Montrose, Heights, Museum, Medical Center, and Braeswood areas of the Loop.

State Thomas is in the left center of this picture. It and West Village is more like Midtown than it is like most other areas of the inner loop. I was there last year and enjoy walking in this area. It's hard to compare it to an entire section of the loop. Which is why I only compared it to Midtown earlier.

Side walks are a liability. people can up out of it. You can't force people to have sidewalks and you can't fault the neighborhood for people not wanting them.


by the way, that link took me to 5th ward. I dunno if that is what you meant to take me to, but it is not Greenway Plaza and it is not in the loop.

How are they a liability, actually? They are sidewalks so people can walk on them. The neighborhood looks incomplete without them. If I need to walk somewhere, I don't want to walk mostly on the same surface where I have to dodge cars going 30-40 mph through neighborhoods.



I know that wasn't Greenway Plaza. But if you initially do a search for a place and you move the little person around the area without deleting the area you searched for, it will stay there even when you link it somewhere. BTW, that first link is Settegast and it's definitely inside the loop.

BTW, here is state thomas.
state thomas Dallas - Google Maps

Again, I LOVE everything about Houston's newer inner loop infill development. Some of the best in the nation that even has the eye of people from the Northeast urban fans giving Houston props for the development.

[testmo]

sidewalks are a liability in that if they crumble or pop up homeowners are typically the ones to have to pay to fix them. also if someone trips and breaks a leg on a broken sidewalk in front of your home you are liable to pay for their injuries.

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by Spade

How are they a liability, actually? They are sidewalks so people can walk on them. The neighborhood looks incomplete without them. If I need to walk somewhere, I don't want to walk mostly on the same surface where I have to dodge cars going 30-40 mph through neighborhoods.

accidents. residents get to okay or deny sidewalks in their neighborhood.

I know that wasn't Greenway Plaza. But if you initially do a search for a place and you move the little person around the area without deleting the area you searched for, it will stay there even when you link it somewhere. BTW, that first link is Settegast and it's definitely inside the loop.

checked again and nope it is not in the loop. check for yourself

BTW, here is state thomas.
state thomas Dallas - Google Maps

oh there are areas like that in Houston. Check out upper midtown , or lower midtown, or the Museum District, Or Wash Ave, or areas of Montrose, or the western part of Uptown

[Spade]

Ah, I see. Well goodness, COH, take care of the sidewalks. I believe Harris County said they are not responsible for the building of sidewalks. That sucks. But I do see how that would become a liability.

You're right on the link. That is a fail on me. I thought I linked a map to go inside the loop. But yeah, on those links, that's why I compared it to Midtown. I know they exist in Houston. But State Thomas is further along than Midtown which is why I give it the upper hand. Heck, some Houstonians don't know Midtown exists. My cousin was shocked that he Midtown even existed.

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by Spade

But yeah, on those links, that's why I compared it to Midtown. I know they exist in Houston. But State Thomas is further along than Midtown which is why I give it the upper hand. Heck, some Houstonians don't know Midtown exists. My cousin was shocked that he Midtown even existed.

I know that. I think my Dad lived here for almost 10 years before ever seeing downtown. He knew nothing about the tunnels.

I don't think his wife has ever been to the Galleria, funny she says she can never find it

anyway, districts are known as different things here. Some people combine Midtown with Montrose and call it Near Town. Did you get a chance to visit at night on a weekend?

As for State Thomas, it looks to be near areas I visit, but the name still escapes me. Anyway, it looks just like areas of the Med Center/ Binz, Museum District, lower Mid town areas

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=state+...229.57,,0,6.24

[blkgiraffe]

Originally Posted by HtownLove

I know that. I think my Dad lived here for almost 10 years before ever seeing downtown. He knew nothing about the tunnels.

I don't think his wife has ever been to the Galleria, funny she says she can never find it

anyway, districts are known as different things here. Some people combine Midtown with Montrose and call it Near Town. Did you get a chance to visit at night on a weekend?

As for State Thomas, it looks to be near areas I visit, but the name still escapes me. Anyway, it looks just like areas of the Med Center/ Binz, Museum District, lower Mid town areas

state thomas Dallas - Google Maps

Yeah; it looks similar to Midtown/4th ward. The issue with these type of neighborhoods in Texas is the lack of retail and business; it's mostly residential which doesn't create a real community feel.

Rice Military, Houston, TX - Google Maps

Rice Military, Houston, TX - Google Maps

Rice Military, Houston, TX - Google Maps

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by blkgiraffe

Yeah; it looks similar to Midtown/4th ward. The issue with these type of neighborhoods in Texas is the lack of retail and business; it's mostly residential which doesn't create a real community feel.

Rice Military, Houston, TX - Google Maps

Rice Military, Houston, TX - Google Maps

Rice Military, Houston, TX - Google Maps

Yeah, I knew that there is that type of development all over the place here. They are all over the Loop. That is why I think that the loop is the most happening place in Texas

[SouthernBoy205]

Originally Posted by HtownLove

Yeah, I knew that there is that type of development all over the place here. They are all over the Loop. That is why I think that the loop is the most happening place in Texas

Is the east side of the Loop getting some of the development, since you guys say that west of downtown is the "IT" place.