Is the Houston Metro "Beautiful?" (Dallas, Sugar Land: sales, apartment)

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by jm02

Of the cities I've lived in or near (Boston, Philly, Wilmington, Roanoke, Hampton Roads, Kansas City and Houston), Houston is the only one I recall with access roads built to parallel their interstates as part of the highway development. As noted in Wikipedia article I cited a few pages back, 80% of Houston's freeways have access roads running along side of them. It is both this model of construction combined with the predominance of feeder roads along Houston's freeways that has led to the approaches to the city being pretty unattractive compared with those cities that shy away from this approach. I think that is the point many are making in this thread - not the literal definition of "feeder road" which may vary from person to person.

I suspect it may just be how we're defining "feeder roads." I'd be interested in seeing some google map street views of these other cities with stretches of roadways you consider feeder roads. I don't see them.

That's the problem. I'm going by definition while everyone else seems to think that the only type of feeder road that exists is the specific kind popular in Texas.

[Spade]

Originally Posted by justme02

That's man made and manicured beauty. I was talking about natural beauty.

I do agree those are great and very nice looking areas.

Just like I said in the Dallas thread. If you ignore, neglect, or build over your natural wonders, you're doing a huge disservice to your city when it comes to beauty. Imagine Miami ignoring their waterfront. Imagine Chicago ignoring the lake. I know LA basin is flat, but a great portion of metro LA is still blessed with mountains to the north. Houston had the bayous but ignored that. In fact, I would say Houston should have built up on Galveston Bay. You still could have had the ship channel but it would have made up for a dynamic picturesque shot with downtown hovering above it. Not to mention that this portion of the metro is not bad in lushness either.

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

That's the problem. I'm going by definition while everyone else seems to think that the only type of feeder road that exists is the specific kind popular in Texas.

No, I think you're splitting hairs. As I said, show me some examples of access roads in the interstates in each of the cities I've lived in or near (Boston, Philly, Wilmington, Roanoke, Hampton Roads, and Kansas City). Until you show me specific examples, I believe I have found several cities without access roads in answer to your query:

Originally Posted by Nairobi

. . . why don't you tell me of some major cities without feeder roads? I can't think of any.

Are you trying to dodge this?

[Spade]

Yeah. i dont see the Texas style access roads like on other cities that i been to either. They do not exist in DC. They do have side roads in Chicago but they are different. It's just side streets and its really only in Eisenhour and the Dan Ryan. In the ike, it ends right when oak park.I only know of one in Miami metro and thats along east-west the palmetto/826. Most if Miami highways do not have feeder roads.

[Spade]

Originally Posted by jm02

Feeder roads have led to aesthetic problems in Houston. They allow for miles and miles of uninterrupted strip development and big box stores. Outside of Texas, I've noted most interstates do not have feeder roads. Instead, they have only off-ramps, where the commercial development is concentrated. In between, the highways are usually landscaped, or at least lacking commercial development. Here are a couple of examples:

I-20 just south of Atlanta's downtown: http://goo.gl/maps/8EzJa
I-80 jsut west of Sacramento's downtown: http://goo.gl/maps/76DUS
I-10 just north of Phoenix's downtown: http://goo.gl/maps/YizDn
I-90 just west of Cleveland's downtown: http://goo.gl/maps/4vF0n

No these are not particularly beautiful stretches of highway, but they are not ugly either. Now look the Gulf Freeway: http://goo.gl/maps/ncsG2. To bad Houston didn't develop all its freeways like 288 South: http://goo.gl/maps/cLWf7

Next time you're driving out of state, take a look at how they handled interstate access.

I see where this convo started. I made a very similar post about this last year in a thread. I cannot STAND feeder/access/service roads. They are mini freeways with business.

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by Spade

Yeah. i dont see the Texas style access roads like on other cities that i been to either. They do not exist in DC. They do have side roads in Chicago but they are different. It's just side streets and its really only in Eisenhour and the Dan Ryan. In the ike, it ends right when oak park.I only know of one in Miami metro and thats along east-west the palmetto/826. Most if Miami highways do not have feeder roads.

A lot is being made of feeder roads recently in this thread, and I have to wonder are feeder roads themselves inherently ugly, or do they merely make the ugliness of low end commercial development visible to a greater number of people ? Aren't freeways the place where you should have this development ? If these feeder roads did not exist would this ugliness disappear, or would it simply migrate to more interior locations. At least when it is on the Freeway or Tollway we are able to speed past it (unless its rush hour)....

In Houston we do have an example of a freeway that does not have feeder roads, and that is Memorial Dr. between DT and Memorial Park, admittedly one of the nicer drives in Houston. Memorial Dr. was going to be the major Westside freeway when it was first conceived in the 1950's. Then the interstate 10 was built, and further extension of the Memorial Freeway was stopped. If I-10 had not been built, how different would Memorial Dr. look today. How many gas stations and convenience stores would have been built in an area that is now Buffalo Bayou Park? Maybe we should be thankful that these Freeway feeders are there to take commercial pressure off the more interior gems that we have in Houston

[jerbear30]

Originally Posted by Spade

I see where this convo started. I made a very similar post about this last year in a thread. I cannot STAND feeder/access/service roads. They are mini freeways with business.

Some great alternatives to the feeders are Westheimer (in off-peak hours), Memorial Drive and Telephone Road. These are roads that have character and are fun to drive. The feeders--they make me feel like I'm in a no man's land.

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

A lot is being made of feeder roads recently in this thread, and I have to wonder are feeder roads themselves inherently ugly, or do they merely make the ugliness of low end commercial development visible to a greater number of people ?

IMO - yes, with a caveat. You seem to assume the only option is that commercial development is ugly. Houston's permissive signage and billboard regulations, use of streamers, etc. only adds to this chaotic look. This is not the case in many cities where more oversight exists on commercial appearance.

Aren't freeways the place where you should have this development ?

Not necessarily. If you click on some of the links that I made in Posts 31 and 49, you'll see stretches of freeways in other cities that don't lend themselves to the development of ugly strip centers. The Texas highways in many instances are intentionally designed to foster this.

In Houston we do have an example of a freeway that does not have feeder roads, and that is Memorial Dr. between DT and Memorial Park, admittedly one of the nicer drives in Houston. Memorial Dr. was going to be the major Westside freeway when it was first conceived in the 1950's. Then the interstate 10 was built, and further extension of the Memorial Freeway was stopped. If I-10 had not been built, how different would Memorial Dr. look today.

Imagine if both Memorial and I-10 were beautiful. I don't see why it's a choice.

My point is that other cities have chosen to develop their freeways in different ways. 80% of Houston's freeways are accompanied by frontage roads. As a result, Houston has paid an aesthetic price along its highways - IMO. I wish every highway looked more like 288 going out of town or 59 from the loop to the downtown turn-off.

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by jm02

IMO - yes, with a caveat. You seem to assume the only option is that commercial development is ugly. Houston's permissive signage and billboard regulations, use of streamers, etc. only adds to this chaotic look. This is not the case in many cities where more oversight exists on commercial appearance.

Not necessarily. If you click on some of the links that I made in Posts 31 and 49, you'll see stretches of freeways in other cities that don't lend themselves to the development of ugly strip centers. The Texas highways in many instances are intentionally designed to foster this.

Imagine if both Memorial and I-10 were beautiful. I don't see why it's a choice.

My point is that other cities have chosen to develop their freeways in different ways. 80% of Houston's freeways are accompanied by frontage roads. As a result, Houston has paid an aesthetic price along its highways - IMO. I wish every highway looked more like 288 going out of town or 59 from the loop to the downtown turn-off.

I'm all for sign and billboard regulation if that helps. If you are saying commercial development itself can be made more attractive then I agree. I can see it being less of an eyesore,but I doubt a 30 lane concrete freeway will ever be made beautiful,unless you think the design of the freeway itself is beautiful

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

I'm all for sign and billboard regulation if that helps. If you are saying commercial development itself can be made more attractive then I agree. I can see it being less of an eyesore,but I doubt a 30 lane concrete freeway will ever be made beautiful,unless you think the design of the freeway itself is beautiful

Regarding the last comment, I agree. That said, there are ways to prevent them from being downright ugly, and most other cites don't suffer the intensity and consistency of this kind of development along their freeways as Houston. That is the point I've been making about the impact of feeder roads. As I said, even in Houston, those few freeways without frontage roads are more attractive than those with them.

Compare this: http://goo.gl/maps/gCKNa
. . . with this: http://goo.gl/maps/NRIah