Dose of Reality in re BRAC (Huntsville, Madison: for rent, lofts, crime rates)

[Charles]

Originally Posted by HB2HSV

It's not a reflection on Huntsville. If the situation was reversed, how many would move from here to NoVa?

Back when Rockwell International decided to move its Space Shuttle support program from Southern California to Houston in an effort to "... be closer to our customer...", ah hem, b.s.... only 15% of the entire staff relocated. Most technical people, including subject matter experts, decided to stay.

It is just difficult for people to uproot their families, friendship ties, and relocate.

I was in the same boat on Space Station. My employer offered full relo plus a fat cash incentive to move to Houston. Luckily, I found another job in CA with the same employer, same location but I could have pretty easily (just like DC people) found another job in LA. I suppose if you are an E series high level VP it might behoove you to go with your employer but for worker bee engineers, finding another equivalent job isn't that tough.

But, (as I sort of mentioned above), the jobs are coming and supposedly the expertise is required. Whether that expertise is satisfied by people moving from DC or by people hired from across the country, people would have to fill those jobs - and if the proportion remains the same, some would be filled by high lever and high paid people. You can't just fill all those jobs with a bunch of UAH grads.

[tammie2]

Originally Posted by Charles

Was it the high taxes or the high $/sqft housing?

Both, and all three. The income tax is a killer too.

A good rule of thumb to determine whether a salary in a specific area is acceptable is to use a good salary calculator that will take deductions and tell you your net pay...then determine if you could afford a home in the area at that salary level, and what type of home. To be comfortable the home should be no more than 3X gross income with average taxes and standard 20% down(this WAS the underwriting policy back in the dark ages). I personally prefer in the 2-2-1/2 range, but that is a personal preference because like most women, I like to spend money

The salary offered was not much more than here. Between the large income tax burden and the property tax amounts, we would have been in a townhome without a super significant down payment, and for what? To be able to afford the taxes? At that point, you become house poor and can't enjoy the area anyway, so why does it matter where you live

There is a great salary calculator at www.salary.com you have to pick a profession(doesn't have to be your true profession, just in the same zip code/area) and then click estimate paycheck. From there you can customize your deductions, your salary, etc. It is typically pretty right on, I have never known it to be more than $20 or so off reality.

I know there are several COL comparison tools, but they are very flawed in my opinion. So much is not quite right about the way the calculations are done. This way you can do your own calculations. If it is looking even, you can even look up grocery store ads to see how groceries compare in price as that is typically your second largest variable expense.

[CharlotteRJ]

Thanks for the info, everybody.

Originally Posted by tammie2

I agree whole heartedly that unless the taxes are crazy, no one ever thinks of that when deciding where to move. The only time it came into play was last year when Chris was offered a position in San Diego, their taxes were so unreasonably high that it would have made a big difference, so we are here in HSV.

I think that's exactly right. We were even looking at moving to New Jersey, even though we knew the taxes there were killer. THOSE gave us pause, but wouldn't have changed our decision.

We're looking at Huntsville for a variety of reasons. We're both from smaller towns in the Midwest, and I prefer a smaller city to the DC area. If I never see another Cheesecake Factory in my life, I can still die happy. I HATE DC traffic. Frankly, the only reason we live in this area is because of my husband's job. I'd love a chance to get into an in-town neighborhood at a reasonable price, something that's virtually impossible around here.

I realize that my city and housing wishes are quite different from most people's, but what gives me pause about Huntsville is that, at least from reading here, it seems like the center of the town is relatively dead, and most development seems to be the kind of suburbia that I can find anywhere in the country. Maybe I'm off track, but I think if you want to attract people to live there, you have to offer something you *can't* get in the DC area.

*sigh* I just want the simple things in life. It's becoming increasingly difficult to find a town where your kids can walk to school, the library, and a park!

[HB2HSV]

Originally Posted by Charles

But, (as I sort of mentioned above), the jobs are coming and supposedly the expertise is required. Whether that expertise is satisfied by people moving from DC or by people hired from across the country, people would have to fill those jobs - and if the proportion remains the same, some would be filled by high lever and high paid people. You can't just fill all those jobs with a bunch of UAH grads.

I saw your earlier post yesterday but did not get a chance to respond. In the case of MDA, I am somewhat cynical as to what "expertise" is required at the agency level. Then again, when I was with a prime contractor we never see our customers as someone who can do our jobs The MDA may also be in a "sustaining" mode rather than at a development mode, so different skills are needed. LtG. O'Reilly maybe insightful and exhibited brilliant leadership by identifying that MDA jobs staffed with "... a bunch of UAH [recent] grads..." will do.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by tammie2

A good rule of thumb to determine whether a salary in a specific area is acceptable is to use a good salary calculator that will take deductions and tell you your net pay...then determine if you could afford a home in the area at that salary level, and what type of home.

Salary, schmalary. Just have both of work 60 hours/week and you can afford a 1970s, 1500 sqft rancher for $500K.

[HB2HSV]

Originally Posted by tammie2

The salary offered was not much more than here. Between the large income tax burden and the property tax amounts, we would have been in a townhome without a super significant down payment, and for what? To be able to afford the taxes? At that point, you become house poor and can't enjoy the area anyway, so why does it matter where you live

But the year-round sun, dry humidity, and closer to heaven atmosphere (without the religious affiliation), you ought to be paying them for living there !

[HB2HSV]

Originally Posted by Charles

Salary, schmalary. Just have both of work 60 hours/week and you can afford a 1970s, 1500 sqft rancher for $500K.

Yeah, what he said. Why does anyone need more than 1,500 sq ft for a house? It is just down right wasteful and hurtful to the environment !!!

[friday13]

Originally Posted by CharlotteRJ

*sigh* I just want the simple things in life. It's becoming increasingly difficult to find a town where your kids can walk to school, the library, and a park!

Until recently there was such a place in Hsv, walk to school, main library, Big Spring park, museum of art, convention center, hospital - it's called Council Courts !! - but you wouldn't have wanted to live there
hint: HHA (Hsv Housing Authority) moving its residents to "heavenly" S. Hsv has started a war. Moreover, there have been soil tests done in the projects, and came back positive for something.
council courts, huntsville, al - Google Maps

[tammie2]

Originally Posted by CharlotteRJ

what gives me pause about Huntsville is that, at least from reading here, it seems like the center of the town is relatively dead, and most development seems to be the kind of suburbia that I can find anywhere in the country. Maybe I'm off track, but I think if you want to attract people to live there, you have to offer something you *can't* get in the DC area.

*sigh* I just want the simple things in life. It's becoming increasingly difficult to find a town where your kids can walk to school, the library, and a park!

What is it that you are looking for in a downtown? Do you want nightlife, broadway shows, etc? Not to much of that, you can go to Von Braun for a performance, there are restaurants and bars, just not so much variety, but keep in mind there aren't enough people to support the same level of variety you are used to.

We have been downtown and it does need some work, but it is a nice, clean, quaint area. Growing up in the Chicago area, we avoided downtown and clung to our suburbia, so I don't mind that.

The only problem that I have is the hospital situation, it is great for normal adults, adults with health issues, normal children, but not for children with health issues. I have been around the block when it comes to medical care and I can tell you Huntsville Hospital is run like a clown college.

My kids walk to school and the park...but not the library, I guess you can't have everything I LOVE where we live!! I love the mountains, I love the "commute" to school, I love the cost of living, I love the low crime rates and safe feeling, overall it is a nice place. Sure some people may not find every culinary whim fulfilled, but I like to travel, so I can find whatever I am looking for if I really wanted it(usually I don't). I actually prefer little hole in the wall places to big chains and as such I have left many favorites behind knowing that they would never come to my new city.

Chris has been here for a year, I have been here since August(and I made several extended trips through the last year). I don't know everything there is to know, but I am a jump in there and explore kind of gal.

I have found that I want for very little and I love the advantages. Every place will have advantages and disadvantages, you just have to determine what is most important to you!!!

[tammie2]

I lived just north of LA for a time, it was truly wonderful, if I would have been able to enjoy it. I was living in an apartment in Palmdale...and I covered 2 WaMu regions(44 branches)....from N Hollywood to Bakersfield. With bi monthly meetings in Orange County...can I tell you about those days? Get on the road at 4:30AM to avoid being late, get home at 7PM. Those were the days!!!

The commutes made it such that there was very little time to enjoy anything other than sleep. I often worked 6 days a week since WaMu was in so much transition they needed staff yesterday. However, there were great things in CA also. I loved my time there but I am not sure I would like to go back with a family, if I ever get tired of the family and decide to ditch them, I might head back that way Then I could pitch a tent and just live on the beach