US policies encourage Illegal Immigration.

[Califreeman]

Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm

Yes, I would like to see the courts interpret "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" to mean more than they currently do.

Again the issue isn't the wording. I don't you think you understand. It's which tradition is followed. Is it in the tradition before the actual amendment? This is currently what we follow. So therefore to create less ambiguity and to clarify we would have to change the 14th. Hence the question. We would have to change the 14th entirely since we already set a VERY long legal precedent.

I deleted the rest since it's not pertinent to the conversation.

[AlabamaStorm]

Originally Posted by Califreeman

Again the issue isn't the wording. I don't you think you understand. It's which tradition is followed. Is it in the tradition before the actual amendment? This is currently what we follow. So therefore to create less ambiguity and to clarify we would have to change the 14th. Hence the question. We would have to change the 14th entirely since we already set a VERY long legal precedent.

I deleted the rest since it's not pertinent to the conversation.

Therein lies the quandary. Prior to the 14th Amendment, citizenship was being determined by the individual states. Each state set it's own rules for citizenship, and not all states had the same rules. What we do know is that during the Constitutional amendment process and debates, the citizenship clause's author, Senator Jacob Howard of Michigan, had this to say:

"Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country."

Whether or not the 14th followed a particular state, or a particular common law "tradition", is not the issue that needs to be addressed today. It's what the "words" of that Amendment meant when first penned in 1866, and if the court has been interpreting them correctly.

Now, if it means that the 14th Amendment must be amended, so be it. But I'll leave that up to the legal scholars on how to achieve it's original intent .

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I guess they shut down the other thread, "Just as I thought", so I'll address it here: You're easy my friend...way to easy...LOL...good luck with your blog!

[Wapasha]

Originally Posted by antarez

'Cynical' policy tacitly encourages illegal immigration - News - The Orange County Register
From Reagan's absolute failed policies to Obama's current failures.
It's time to correct this mess !!!

...and if you are like some of these mushy-headed, big hearted liberals, you think anyone should be able to come to the US and:

1) stay as long as they want, and bring their families
2) claim participation in as many of our government social welfare and education programs as they want
3) conduct political protests in our streets
4) steal people's SSN
5) depress the local employment market
6) and give them the right to vote in our elections.

Did I leave anything out?

The reason we have immigration policies is so that we:

A) know what the person's country home country is
B) can positively ID who they are
C) know if they have a criminal, terrorist or military record
D) know if they are mentally competent/sane, or carry contagious diseases
F) know their intentions for being in our country. eg. political, business or personal motivations

Did I leave anything out?

[Wapasha]

I think our government's lack of an effective temp worker immigration policy also encourages illegal immigration.

I have heard employers say it is too frustrating to file the paperwork, or the process is slow and takes too long to get workers, or all the requirements end up costing the employer too much time and money. For the employer who is trying to follow the rules, it gets to the point where its counter productive. Then their competition down the street hires illegals, the government does enforce the laws, and the competition runs the law abiding employer out of business.

[chicagonut]

Originally Posted by Wapasha

I think our government's lack of an effective temp worker immigration policy also encourages illegal immigration.

I have heard employers say it is too frustrating to file the paperwork, or the process is slow and takes too long to get workers, or all the requirements end up costing the employer too much time and money. For the employer who is trying to follow the rules, it gets to the point where its counter productive. Then their competition down the street hires illegals, the government does enforce the laws, and the competition runs the law abiding employer out of business.

To my knowledge we already have a temporary worker's visa for crop pickers and I don't know of any other job that would require a temporary foreign worker. If so, please share that info with us.

Yes, it is more difficult for the farmers to use the H-2A visas for temporary crop pickers but they are obligated to use them rather than hiring illegal workers. I am all for making it easier for them to use those visas if that is what is needed but they won't use them mostly because they can pay the cheap illegal labor less and that increases their profits. It is just one more reason to secure our borders and to insist that e-verify be used by all employers and to monitor them on it.

[inturbide1981]

Originally Posted by Eleanora1

is all I have to say about the above rather incoherent sentences.

If you're trying to imply that other things cost us money well so what? We're not discussing those other things are we? If you're trying to imply that American businesses welcome illegal migrants well some do and some don't. So what? Just because a group of greedheads wants to lower wages doesn't make the guy crossing the border any less culpable.

You want to immigrate here? Um okay. Do so legally or don't come here at all. More importantly do not come here and be a financial burden on me. I do not get up in the morning and go to work so you can have a better life. Frankly I don't give a damn if you have a better life. That is not my responsibility. If your decision to immigrate here results in a worse life for myself I reserve the firm right to tell you to get your damned hands out of my checkbook and get your rear back home.

No one subsized my grandparents when they came here. I am not about to subsizide you. The American public is firmly against illegal migration. Period. We've repeatedly made it clear that we do not want people breaking our immigration laws. I don't give a damn that a significant percentage of Mexicans feel the god given right to ignore that fact.

Why is this so hard to understand?

those illegals are bringing to us, THE POLICIES WE HAVE BEEN PRACTICINGN FOR YEARS, can you not understand that were the ones with the power were the ones that choose were to invest, were to consume
and just because a human being does not have the education or the oppurtunities that we have , we have a right to exploit them?

you know for a fact everything youre buying is made from cheap labor, exploited labor and what do you do, you ignore that fact, you give it a blind side dont you?

illegals are the most uneducated, the most poor of their original homelands and when they come here, there telling us, if you can go to my country and pay me two miserable two dollars and expect me to put my kids thru college, to have and air condition house, a full refrigerator, then %$# YOU TOO....

thats all my information or my two cents, if you check statistics of how much they pay the american maquiladora workers at the border and how many they employ you would know for A FACT, who reaps the profits,
and MAYBE JUST MAYBE THEY WOULD NOT BE SUCH A BURDEN ON POOR YOU.
Amarxica - America's Socialist Programs (http://www.amarxica.com/pages/programs.html - broken link)
so youre grandparent never asked for a handout? youre sure and if not yours then it most be a good exception
these are the pograms (in the link) that ruin america
and it was all those europeans that destroy the capitalist system from the 1935 era.

socialist programs that are destroying america.

The Great Depression & FDR's New Deal
1928 – Herbert Hoover elected President – despite a personal belief that the economy was best left to the private sector, Hoover caved into calls for government assistance after the Stock Market Crash of 1929.
1929 – Agricultural Marketing Act
1930 – Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act
1932 – Reconstruction Finance Corporation
1932 – Revenue Act of 1932 – Raised taxes on highest incomes from 25% to 63%
1932 – Federal Home Loan Bank Act
1932 – Emergency Relief and Construction Act
1932 – Franklin D. Roosevelt wins Presidential election – begins implementation of his New Deal in 1933
1933 – Agricultural Adjustment Act
1933 – Civil Works Administration
1933 – Civilian Conservation Corps
1933 – Federal Emergency Relief Act
1933 – National Industrial Recovery Act
1933 – Tennessee Valley Authority
1934 – Securities and Exchange Commission
1934 – Railroad Retirement System
1935 – National Youth Administration
1935 – Rural Electrification Administration
1935 – Social Security Act
1935 – Wagner Act
1935 – Works Progress Administration
1939 – Social Security Old-Age and Survivors Insurance
[LEFT]1940 - 1964
1946 – National School Lunch Program
1950 – Aid to the Permanently and Totally Disabled (replaced by SSI program in 1972)
1960 – Medical Assistance for the Aged (replaced by Medicaid in 1965)

The Great Society
1963 - Lyndon Johnson becomes President - takes steps toward enacting his Great Society.
1964 – Food Stamp Program
1965 – Medicare and Medicaid Programs
1966 – School Breakfast Program
1969 – Black Lung Benefits Program

1970 - Present
1972 – Supplemental Security Income Program
1974 – Special Supplemental Food Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC)
1981 – Low-Income Home Energy Assistance
1996 – Temporary Assistance for Needy Families
2005 – Medicare Prescription Drug Plan


CHECK IT AN SEE HOW MANY, HOW MANY ILLEGAS OR HISPANICS WERE PRESENT DURING ALL THOSE ACTS PASSED!
[/LEFT]

[inturbide1981]

Originally Posted by Eleanora1

is all I have to say about the above rather incoherent sentences.

If you're trying to imply that other things cost us money well so what? We're not discussing those other things are we? If you're trying to imply that American businesses welcome illegal migrants well some do and some don't. So what? Just because a group of greedheads wants to lower wages doesn't make the guy crossing the border any less culpable.

You want to immigrate here? Um okay. Do so legally or don't come here at all. More importantly do not come here and be a financial burden on me. I do not get up in the morning and go to work so you can have a better life. Frankly I don't give a damn if you have a better life. That is not my responsibility. If your decision to immigrate here results in a worse life for myself I reserve the firm right to tell you to get your damned hands out of my checkbook and get your rear back home.

No one subsized my grandparents when they came here. I am not about to subsizide you. The American public is firmly against illegal migration. Period. We've repeatedly made it clear that we do not want people breaking our immigration laws. I don't give a damn that a significant percentage of Mexicans feel the god given right to ignore that fact.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Google Image Result for http://www.cairco.org/images/chart1.gif

20 MILLION EUROPEANS FROM areas socialism was growing came to america 1901-1930...the economy collapse, and the babies whined
that corporations were exploiting them...
so they elected officials THAT JUST PUT EVERYTHING ON THE TAB FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS...

was your grandpa one of them? mine wasnt, he was tilling farms for a rich haciendado....that belong to some rich american here in the states

so dont point the finger my way...