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Old 08-19-2013, 02:57 PM
 
Location: South Portland, ME
874 posts, read 972,552 times
Reputation: 868

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
No, increasing legal immigration would not cause illegal immigration to drop. It would only increase the perception that anyone can come in anytime they want. Which would result in even more illegals coming. We have huge numbers of both illegal aliens and legal immigrants here. Our population has pretty much doubled here in America over the last fifty years. Most nearly all of it due to immigration.

What we need to do is end all immigration immediately. Then after we have comprehensive border security and interior enforcement we let in only those who can contribute to American society. No chain immigration. No extended families. Only educated individuals or people who have the resources that can be used to open up a business.

At this point we have absolutely no control over who comes to this country. We need to shut the door until we get a handle on the situation and then after a great while, only open it for limited numbers of people who demonstrate they deserve to come here. Because if we don't, by the time the next century comes around we will have a billion people here and most will be living in poverty.
That only makes sense if you are also willing to kick out everyone (ie: American citizens) who "are not contributing to American society". Is that really what you are arguing for? If so

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Old 08-19-2013, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,931,891 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoulesMSU View Post
That only makes sense if you are also willing to kick out everyone (ie: American citizens) who "are not contributing to American society". Is that really what you are arguing for? If so
The either or argument.
Your argument makes as much sense as: Houses built in the 70's don't measure up to todays code. So either we don't have code or we tear down all houses that don't make the grade.
NO we make sure all new houses make the grade. If an older home is to be sold it must be brought up to code.
In regards to immigration.
Our laws need to reflect the needs of our nation not the applicant. The applicant wants to immigrate to the USA then it is upon them to prove they are worthy. We owe them nothing at all.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:54 AM
 
Location: South Portland, ME
874 posts, read 972,552 times
Reputation: 868
There are PLENTY of American citizens who do not meet this "requirement":

Quote:
we let in only those who can contribute to American society. No chain immigration. No extended families. Only educated individuals or people who have the resources that can be used to open up a business.
So unless you are saying we should remove them from our society as well, then I fail to see how it makes sense to impose such restrictions on others.

Otherwise, it is just hypocrisy and double standards. Some white women from New York who is a single mom with 3 kids and no job - it's OKAY for her to live here and mooch off everyone else, but a small family from Honduras is not allowed to come earn a living here because they didn't go to college? lol


FWIW, we shouldn't have any building codes either, so I think the example works the same - it shows that houses were able to be built just fine without codes (since even those that "don't meet the current codes" are still standing and suitable to live in), so what is the point of having codes in the first place? Just authoritarian trash to impose on people's freedom. Same as immigration laws.
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:02 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,877,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoulesMSU View Post
There are PLENTY of American citizens who do not meet this "requirement":



So unless you are saying we should remove them from our society as well, then I fail to see how it makes sense to impose such restrictions on others.

Otherwise, it is just hypocrisy and double standards. Some white women from New York who is a single mom with 3 kids and no job - it's OKAY for her to live here and mooch off everyone else, but a small family from Honduras is not allowed to come earn a living here because they didn't go to college? lol


FWIW, we shouldn't have any building codes either, so I think the example works the same - it shows that houses were able to be built just fine without codes (since even those that "don't meet the current codes" are still standing and suitable to live in), so what is the point of having codes in the first place? Just authoritarian trash to impose on people's freedom. Same as immigration laws.
So? Unlike all the other countries, we don't have a country with open borders and very little border enforcement to dump our indigent populations.

It's one thing for a nation to take care of it's own poor but it's completely irrational to expect that American taxpayers can bring in the over 2 billion impoverished of the world and provide them a very nice standard of living.

It's time that those in other countries start taking care of their own people, instead of shipping them all over to us to take care of.

We've become the world's cat lady who has been taking into so many unwanted strays that she can no longer feed her own cats. Why don't the rich Mexicans and other Latin Americans start paying taxes themselves to provide for their impoverished?
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:39 PM
 
31,929 posts, read 14,712,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
So? Unlike all the other countries, we don't have a country with open borders and very little border enforcement to dump our indigent populations.

It's one thing for a nation to take care of it's own poor but it's completely irrational to expect that American taxpayers can bring in the over 2 billion impoverished of the world and provide them a very nice standard of living.

It's time that those in other countries start taking care of their own people, instead of shipping them all over to us to take care of.

We've become the world's cat lady who has been taking into so many unwanted strays that she can no longer feed her own cats. Why don't the rich Mexicans and other Latin Americans start paying taxes themselves to provide for their impoverished?
What I find interesting is that the pro-illegals in here don't say a darn word to someone who says bizarre things like we shouldn't have building codes nor any immigration laws. Where are they? The silence is deafening.

At least when an anti-illegal says bizarre things like we should put alligators in the Rio Grande or start shooting illegals at the border I step in and disagree with them. I am not an advocate for violence in this issue and don't go along with it just because someone else opposes illegal immigration as I do.
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:10 PM
 
Location: South Portland, ME
874 posts, read 972,552 times
Reputation: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
So? Unlike all the other countries, we don't have a country with open borders and very little border enforcement to dump our indigent populations.

It's one thing for a nation to take care of it's own poor but it's completely irrational to expect that American taxpayers can bring in the over 2 billion impoverished of the world and provide them a very nice standard of living.

It's time that those in other countries start taking care of their own people, instead of shipping them all over to us to take care of.

We've become the world's cat lady who has been taking into so many unwanted strays that she can no longer feed her own cats. Why don't the rich Mexicans and other Latin Americans start paying taxes themselves to provide for their impoverished?
You are close, but you didn't quite get it.

It's one thing for a nation to take care of it's own poor but it's completely irrational to expect that American taxpayers can bring in the over 2 billion impoverished of the world and provide them a very nice standard of living.

I never said we should do this. In fact, I said the opposite, that we shouldn't be responsible for taking care of "our own poor" either. Sure, some kind of "safety net" is essential to prevent the very bottom of society from simply "giving up" and turning to crime, but at the same time, that "net" shouldn't be to the point where you can live comfortably inside of it for many years, if not your entire life.

So the solution to BOTH problems is simple: REDUCE WELFARE BENEFITS.

It means that people won't be coming here to 'mooch off the system' AND the people who are already mooching off the system won't be taking so much. Seems a lot simpler than drawing a line in the sand and saying "we'll help these poor people, but not THOSE poor people"... all that does is make "those poor people" want to cross the line and become "these poor people".

It doesn't address the problem that "poor people are taking a large number of our resources in the first place". And it just encourages people to remain poor in order to take advantage of the benefits they get. So once you cross the line (or happen to be born on the "right side" of it), there is no incentive to better yourself if everyone else is forced to take care of you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
What I find interesting is that the pro-illegals in here don't say a darn word to someone who says bizarre things like we shouldn't have building codes nor any immigration laws. Where are they? The silence is deafening.

At least when an anti-illegal says bizarre things like we should put alligators in the Rio Grande or start shooting illegals at the border I step in and disagree with them. I am not an advocate for violence in this issue and don't go along with it just because someone else opposes illegal immigration as I do.
What is so bizarre about not needing building codes? People already have an incentive to build homes that will remain standing without any laws, because, you know, they have to LIVE inside those homes. Building codes do nothing except try to force one person/group's view of how homes should be built onto others who may have different ideas, and worse, extort those people by fining them if they have the gall to build their own home how they want to.

Also lol at calling people "pro-illegals" - I think the term you are looking for is "pro-immigration" or "pro-freedom"
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:21 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,877,424 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoulesMSU View Post

So the solution to BOTH problems is simple: REDUCE WELFARE BENEFITS.
Kind of hard to do that with so many unemployed displaced Americans wanting free handouts as well as the impoverished third world moving over in very large numbers and with very high birth rates but without skills that allow them a wage that would allow them to support their very large families.

The educated and skilled are not the ones flooding over the borders illegally.

We should have some immigration but not for the purpose of putting millions of Americans out of work, nor for the purpose of other countries dumping their unwanted social problems onto us.

Of course there should be no welfare handouts for any able-bodied types but we're importing a very large amount of poverty. These people coming illegally simply cannot afford the cost of housing, the cost of health care or food in this country.
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:24 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,877,424 times
Reputation: 22174
It's not a bad point --- but lets focus on ending all the handouts like Medicaid, food stamps, free housing, public schools with two free meals, etc BEFORE we talk about letting all the over 2 billion impoverished people have the "freedom" to live in the USA.

Dump ALL unemployed Americans off the unemployment handouts, the food stamps, government subsidized housing, Medicaid, WIC, TANF, and all the others so they will want to work jobs also.
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Old 08-28-2013, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,152,192 times
Reputation: 18146
No. Many of those coming in illegally would never qualify to come here legally.
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