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We don't pick and choose which laws to enforce. Our government does. And, they have chosen to ignore our laws, including decriminalizing ID theft when the offender is an illegal who steals an identity "for work purposes."
And your point is?
Replace the word "we" with the word "goverment" in the post you were referring to. Is that better? Can you answer my question now?
Some could make that argument about two income (white American) families...we can argue any side of any issue.
If you can't put food in your child's mouth where you are, is it wrong to go somewhere, where you can?
Of course we can enjoy those things from those that are here legally.
I thought I clarified, the point I was trying to make in a post up above...
Some do. Some don't...
Not my words (written or implied)
Who's bragging? Not me.
Do you believe in holding those employers accountable for hiring illegal immigrants at below minimum wage? Is it "stealing" when somebody (the employer) is saying "Here, take this?" From my point of view, it sounds more like exploitation coming from the employer...
Agreed
What do you mean about American famiies? I don't know many American families who are entering another country illegally. No, it isn't right to make a better life for your family by breaking another country's immigration laws especially when it is negatively impacting the citizen famiies of that country.
Of course I want the employers punished. We all do and have stated as such over and over in this forum. Yes, it is stealing. If someone offers you something they have no right to offer to you because it belongs to someone else and you take it knowing that then yes it is stealing. The employers and the illegals are equally guilty.
Good grief! If you don't want to be questioned, why are you posting?
lol Good point. Maybe. I stumbled into this forum quite by accident, and before i knew it I stumbled into this immigration debate. I didn't know what I was getting myself into. I was caught off guard!
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I asked a legitimate question based on your comments, which implied we would receive a "new" culture to enrich our country.
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No need to be so defensive.
Apparently that is a big character flaw of mine, as it has been pointed out by both of my sisters recently. Of course, I did come up with the clever (IMO) comeback of saying "if I seem defensive, maybe it's because you are being offensive!"
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I don't think anyone here has denied the contributions of immigrants.
Not sure on that, but I've invested way too much time on this discussion already, and I really don't want to read back over all the posts AGAIN.
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However, we are not discussing legal immigrants; we are discussing illegal aliens. Sorry, but a culture of fraud and deception is not my idea of enrichment.
True this tread is not about legal immigrants, no argument there.
Your last sentence...I first interpreted to imply that hispanic cultures are full of fraud and deception, but upon further consideration, I am going to take it to mean that those who come into this country develop a culture of fraud and deception surrounding their illegal status. Is that a better asssesment of that statement?
No, none of those things equates to advocating for illegal aliens. Illegal immigration is "illegal" none of those other things you mentioned are.
I am not equating to anything. I am saying that people tend to vote for issues that they deem important int their live. That is what it is regardless of how you feel or what you think. Some people do believe to give legal residency to these people. That is they right think that way whether you or I disagree. That is the point, not arguing the status of them. Take care.
Sorry, no it isn't. We already have "legal" immigration so your analogy fails.
Trust me. I have plenty of "reasons" to "justify" my beliefs, but we could go at this forever. It really isn't worth it...
But, as far as the term "legal"... Then, maybe we should change those "laws" so that it's easier to get citizenship!
Listen...that's just a rebuttal to your comment for "sport". As I've said at least once (maybe more than once) I "get" why people are concerned about illegal immigration. I just don't agree with SOME of the reasons that people have. And again, my biggest objection is when people generalize about Hispanics and their motives...
That's all...
The rest of the stuff (for me) is just sort of nitpicking.
What do you mean about American famiies? I don't know many American families who are entering another country illegally. No, it isn't right to make a better life for your family by breaking another country's immigration laws especially when it is negatively impacting the citizen famiies of that country.
Of course I want the employers punished. We all do and have stated as such over and over in this forum. Yes, it is stealing. If someone offers you something they have no right to offer to you because it belongs to someone else and you take it knowing that then yes it is stealing. The employers and the illegals are equally guilty.
What I meant about "American families" was to say, that it could be argued (not necessarily my belief) that, in families where both parents work, the parents are choosing not to care for their children as well as they should. Now before you jump all over me on that one, let me say it's not my belief. I am just saying that it could be argued...in reply to the comment about crossing the border and leaving children behind...
And I'll have to disagree with you on whether it is right or wrong, to make a better life for your family by breaking another countries immigration laws.
That's a personal choice and every situation is different. Are you taking the time to ask each family why they are coming here, or are you just making assumptions about their motives? I can't imagine that people take the decission to leave your family behind lightly. Maybe some do, but I am sure that most don't take it lightly.
I am glad that you consider the employers equally guilty.
But, again, I'll have to disagree with you, when you say that taking something that is not theirs to offer is stealing, if it's the employer that is making the offer. I am sure you can come up with some argument for that too. But please don't waste your time on my account. You really aren't going to change my mind on that. Of course, you are free to say your piece if you are so inclined, just don't do it for my benefit, is all I'm saying.
Trust me. I have plenty of "reasons" to "justify" my beliefs, but we could go at this forever. It really isn't worth it...
But, as far as the term "legal"... Then, maybe we should change those "laws" so that it's easier to get citizenship!
Listen...that's just a rebuttal to your comment for "sport". As I've said at least once (maybe more than once) I "get" why people are concerned about illegal immigration. I just don't agree with SOME of the reasons that people have. And again, my biggest objection is when people generalize about Hispanics and their motives...
That's all...
The rest of the stuff (for me) is just sort of nitpicking.
Why should it be easier to get citizenship? American citizenship confers benefits right now including the right to access the American welfare system. Why should foreign nationals have the right to ask Americans to pay their bills?
We're a generous nation on immigration. We've let in millions of people in the past and continue to let in thousands each year. Why do we need to let any more? Especially in the middle of a recession when our own citizens are hurting? Especially people who's primary motivation for doing so is get money out of this country rather than contribute to it?
Enough with the identity politics and the pandering to the hispanic vote. Pols should watch themselves. If they continue to pander to people who can't even vote they will lose the votes of those of us who can.
What I meant about "American families" was to say, that it could be argued (not necessarily my belief) that, in families where both parents work, the parents are choosing not to care for their children as well as they should. Now before you jump all over me on that one, let me say it's not my belief. I am just saying that it could be argued...in reply to the comment about crossing the border and leaving children behind...
And I'll have to disagree with you on whether it is right or wrong, to make a better life for your family by breaking another countries immigration laws.
That's a personal choice and every situation is different. Are you taking the time to ask each family why they are coming here, or are you just making assumptions about their motives? I can't imagine that people take the decission to leave your family behind lightly. Maybe some do, but I am sure that most don't take it lightly.
I am glad that you consider the employers equally guilty.
But, again, I'll have to disagree with you, when you say that taking something that is not theirs to offer is stealing, if it's the employer that is making the offer. I am sure you can come up with some argument for that too. But please don't waste your time on my account. You really aren't going to change my mind on that. Of course, you are free to say your piece if you are so inclined, just don't do it for my benefit, is all I'm saying.
Working parents normally come home at night. When illegals abandon their children to come to this country they can be left behind for years. How can you possibly consider that a good analogy?
Why would you disagree that it is legally and morally wrong to violate another country's borders for your own self-serving interests at the expense of the livelyhood and well-being of that country's citizens?
I really don't care what their motives are for coming here illegally. One of the reasons is in the paragraph above and the most important one is that it is against the law.
In one statement you agree that the employers and the illegals are equally guilty and then you turn around and say these illegals aren't stealing jobs from Americans just because it is offered to them illegally?
No, none of those things equates to advocating for illegal aliens. Illegal immigration is "illegal" none of those other things you mentioned are.
I think he was referring to the original post where it ask the question "isn't it wrong to cater to special interest groups"? I am completely paraphrasing here, so don't accuse me of misquoting.
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