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Why should it be easier to get citizenship? American citizenship confers benefits right now including the right to access the American welfare system. Why should foreign nationals have the right to ask Americans to pay their bills?
We're a generous nation on immigration. We've let in millions of people in the past and continue to let in thousands each year. Why do we need to let any more? Especially in the middle of a recession when our own citizens are hurting? Especially people who's primary motivation for doing so is get money out of this country rather than contribute to it?
Enough with the identity politics and the pandering to the hispanic vote. Pols should watch themselves. If they continue to pander to people who can't even vote they will lose the votes of those of us who can.
As I said...
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Listen...that's just a rebuttal to your comment for "sport". As I've said at least once (maybe more than once) I "get" why people are concerned about illegal immigration. I just don't agree with SOME of the reasons that people have. And again, my biggest objection is when people generalize about Hispanics and their motives...
That's all...
The rest of the stuff (for me) is just sort of nitpicking.
I am not equating to anything. I am saying that people tend to vote for issues that they deem important int their live. That is what it is regardless of how you feel or what you think. Some people do believe to give legal residency to these people. That is they right think that way whether you or I disagree. That is the point, not arguing the status of them. Take care.
Except most of the voters advocating for these illegal aliens are doing so because they are ethnically like them. That isn't what this country is about. It is about putting the national interests first and our citizenry as a whole. If most of these illegals were Chinese for example, these ethnocentric Hispanics would be singing a different tune.
What I meant about "American families" was to say, that it could be argued (not necessarily my belief) that, in families where both parents work, the parents are choosing not to care for their children as well as they should. Now before you jump all over me on that one, let me say it's not my belief. I am just saying that it could be argued...in reply to the comment about crossing the border and leaving children behind...
And I'll have to disagree with you on whether it is right or wrong, to make a better life for your family by breaking another countries immigration laws.
That's a personal choice and every situation is different. Are you taking the time to ask each family why they are coming here, or are you just making assumptions about their motives? I can't imagine that people take the decission to leave your family behind lightly. Maybe some do, but I am sure that most don't take it lightly.
I am glad that you consider the employers equally guilty.
But, again, I'll have to disagree with you, when you say that taking something that is not theirs to offer is stealing, if it's the employer that is making the offer. I am sure you can come up with some argument for that too. But please don't waste your time on my account. You really aren't going to change my mind on that. Of course, you are free to say your piece if you are so inclined, just don't do it for my benefit, is all I'm saying.
You pointed out an area people seem to not want to accept. Some people do like to play 'armchair quarterback'. It is easy to label and judge many of those immigrant in a negative now, demonize them, put them down, etc.
In other words many tend to think and comment with an all wrong or all right view.
Also, many talk about laws as if they neve break laws. To me that the issue that is very hypocritical. Very often people break laws everyday everywhere. Am I saying it is an excuse to break laws and it is OK? No, not at all. We should strive to never do such thing.
However, some do have these high horse mentality with no compassion as to why someone breaks a law, any law for that matter.
I am glad our legal system is designed to hear someone in cours as to why he or she broke a law. The law allows for mitigating circumstances, reasons why, and other factors for a judge to rule how harsh or lenient he needs to be.
The same with immigrants. Sure, they broke a law by coming to our land without permission. Let us keep in mind that our government and its leaders even turned the other way and did not nothing about it for years. The laws may have been lenient on people hiring them.
Now, it is the political thing to do from what I can see. Now, after we allowed a system to be broken and not enforce for years we now want to forget that many of these people have made home for years, their kids in college after they had arrived when maybe they were five or six. Some of their kids are born US citizens and some of people just want them sent back without a shred of compassion. Many of them have been very productive citizens and their kids have gone on to college college and producing for out society.
I am not saying to just give automatic residency or citizenship to all. We need to look at each case and see what they have done, how long they have been there, if they have been good citizens, etc. and then decide if some of them are worthy of staying here. Others, send them back if they do not show a positive record while here.
I have read that they should have gotten on line like many others. Yes, it is true. Again, why did some of them not get on line? For the simple reason that circumstances are not the same with all. Some that do apply to emmigrate do get on line and wait. Some of those do have the luxury to wait but others do not. Some are hungry and desperate. It is not different then many on their high horse would do if they were in the same circumstances.
Even though I do not agree with his general philosophy I do agree wit these words he said "Human beings must first of all eat, drink, shelter, and clothe themselves before they can turn their attention to politics, science, art, and religion". Friedrick Engels.
He was right. When you are hungry, law, religion, and moral very often turn and individual to resort to do whatever to survive. Moslow's Pyramid of Needs support that. So yes, it is easy for many here to sit down on a cozy chair and have at it in their computers and forget about at least being humane and understand more closely why others break a low and think in a more caring way how to solve the situation, after all these people are human just like us. Take care.
Working parents normally come home at night. When illegals abandon their children to come to this country they can be left behind for years. How can you possibly consider that a good analogy?
Why would you disagree that it is legally and morally wrong to violate another country's borders for your own self-serving interests at the expense of the livelyhood and well-being of that country's citizens?
I really don't care what their motives are for coming here illegally. One of the reasons is in the paragraph above and the most important one is that it is against the law.
In one statement you agree that the employers and the illegals are equally guilty and then you turn around and say these illegals aren't stealing jobs from Americans just because it is offered to them illegally?
It's is legally wrong. Morally (to me) is arguable. So working mom's only abandon their young children for half the day... okay. (again, not my belief - just for the sake of argument)
By the way. I love the very cute. I've been doing that since I got here! . .
Again. I don't argue the illegality of it... I will debate the definition of "stealing" though. And, some laws are just wrong. That's why American's have the ability to change the laws. Again, my suggestion of changing the law was really (mostly) for argument sake.
And any example/argument I would give to rebut your last sentence would be picked over just as aggressively, so...it's time for me to take a break from this debate and go spend some time taking care of MY family which I am fortunate enough to be able to do.
You pointed out an area people seem to not want to accept. Some people do like to play 'armchair quarterback'. It is easy to label and judge many of those immigrant in a negative now, demonize them, put them down, etc.
In other words many tend to think and comment with an all wrong or all right view.
Also, many talk about laws as if they neve break laws. To me that the issue that is very hypocritical. Very often people break laws everyday everywhere. Am I saying it is an excuse to break laws and it is OK? No, not at all. We should strive to never do such thing.
However, some do have these high horse mentality with no compassion as to why someone breaks a law, any law for that matter.
I am glad our legal system is designed to hear someone in cours as to why he or she broke a law. The law allows for mitigating circumstances, reasons why, and other factors for a judge to rule how harsh or lenient he needs to be.
The same with immigrants. Sure, they broke a law by coming to our land without permission. Let us keep in mind that our government and its leaders even turned the other way and did not nothing about it for years. The laws may have been lenient on people hiring them.
Now, it is the political thing to do from what I can see. Now, after we allowed a system to be broken and not enforce for years we now want to forget that many of these people have made home for years, their kids in college after they had arrived when maybe they were five or six. Some of their kids are born US citizens and some of people just want them sent back without a shred of compassion. Many of them have been very productive citizens and their kids have gone on to college college and producing for out society.
I am not saying to just give automatic residency or citizenship to all. We need to look at each case and see what they have done, how long they have been there, if they have been good citizens, etc. and then decide if some of them are worthy of staying here. Others, send them back if they do not show a positive record while here.
I have read that they should have gotten on line like many others. Yes, it is true. Again, why did some of them not get on line? For the simple reason that circumstances are not the same with all. Some that do apply to emmigrate do get on line and wait. Some of those do have the luxury to wait but others do not. Some are hungry and desperate. It is not different then many on their high horse would do if they were in the same circumstances.
Even though I do not agree with his general philosophy I do agree wit these words he said "Human beings must first of all eat, drink, shelter, and clothe themselves before they can turn their attention to politics, science, art, and religion". Friedrick Engels.
He was right. When you are hungry, law, religion, and moral very often turn and individual to resort to do whatever to survive. Moslow's Pyramid of Needs support that. So yes, it is easy for many here to sit down on a cozy chair and have at it in their computers and forget about at least being humane and understand more closely why others break a low and think in a more caring way how to solve the situation, after all these people are human just like us. Take care.
While you advocate for compassion for these illegals where is your compassion for the American people who have lost their jobs to them, had their taxes raised to support their social needs, experiencing crowded schools by non-English speaking illegals, had to wait behind illegals in the ER rooms (of which they don't pay their bills) and/or had their I.D.'s or SS numbers? stolen by them?
Americans who break the law when caught are held accountable for it. Illegals not so much. None of us are perfect but it is a ridiculous reason to allow millions of illegal foeigners into our country to destroy ourselves and those Americans who aren't law breakers along with it.
These people are not citizens so why would you refer to them that way? So those who have managed to evade the law longer should be given a pass? I don't think so! How have they been surving all these years without doing at least some of the things in the above paragraph?
We allow in as many "legal" immigrants as we can accomodate in jobs and resources without negatively impacting our own. Granting amnesty to any of those here illegally would negate that sane policy, wouldn't it?
"We" the American people did not allow this and I'll be damned if we are going to pay for it by allowing these people to stay.
While you advocate for compassion for these illegals where is your compassion for the American people who have lost their jobs to them, had their taxes raised to support their social needs, experiencing crowded schools by non-English speaking illegals, had to wait behind illegals in the ER rooms (of which they don't pay their bills) and/or had their I.D.'s or SS numbers? stolen by them?
Americans who break the law when caught are held accountable for it. Illegals not so much. None of us are perfect but it is a ridiculous reason to allow millions of illegal foeigners into our country to destroy ourselves and those Americans who aren't law breakers along with it.
These people are not citizens so why would you refer to them that way? So those who have managed to evade the law longer should be given a pass? I don't think so! How have they been surving all these years without doing at least some of the things in the above paragraph?
We allow in as many "legal" immigrants as we can accomodate in jobs and resources without negatively impacting our own. Granting amnesty to any of those here illegally would negate that sane policy, wouldn't it?
"We" the American people did not allow this and I'll be damned if we are going to pay for it by allowing these people to stay.
Not only that but most illegals are from Mexico. Mexico is a thriving society with a low unemployment rate, national health care and so much food that many of their people are obese.
I'm sick and tired of being told that I lack compassion if I demand they obey our immigration laws and go back there. If their own society is imperfect the solution is demand change in Mexico. The solution is certainly not to santimoniously lecture Americans on our moral need to honor the lives of lawbreakers with full access to our country and taxpayer subsidized benefits.
The argument that someone somewhere breaks a law so ergo no one should be held accountable for criminal actions is not acceptable in a court of law. I have no idea why it should be acceptable in regards to this issue.
It's is legally wrong. Morally (to me) is arguable. So working mom's only abandon their young children for half the day... okay. (again, not my belief - just for the sake of argument)
By the way. I love the very cute. I've been doing that since I got here! . .
Again. I don't argue the illegality of it... I will debate the definition of "stealing" though. And, some laws are just wrong. That's why American's have the ability to change the laws. Again, my suggestion of changing the law was really (mostly) for argument sake.
And any example/argument I would give to rebut your last sentence would be picked over just as aggressively, so...it's time for me to take a break from this debate and go spend some time taking care of MY family which I am fortunate enough to be able to do.
Have a great day!
Are you claiming that is it just our immigration laws that are wrong or is it only ok if other countries have them? How can our laws be wrong when they are already based on annual quotas that we can accomodate in jobs and resources without negatively impacting our own? We cannot take in the whole world's poor you know. Most Mexicans and other illegals who come here may be poor but they aren't starving in their countries.
Well good for you that you are able to care for you family. Many Americans however can't because of this issue. But who cares about them, right? We should put illegal foreigners above our own citizens according to some.
Are you claiming that is it just our immigration laws that are wrong or is it only ok if other countries have them? ...
Well good for you that you are able to care for you family. Many Americans however can't because of this issue. But who cares about them, right? We should put illegal foreigners above our own citizens according to some.
1- Are those my only two choices? Funny that those are the ONLY two possible conclusions that you can allow me.
Some of OUR immigration laws COULD be wrong...along with SOME of our MANY other laws. I believe that's why our constitution allows for some change (if I'm not mistaken). Sorry, my answer was not either "A" or "B", but "D" "none of the above". But thanks for trying to help me figure out MY answers to your questions!
I care about poor and hungry American's as much as I care for poor and hungry everybody.
Maybe "we should put illegal foreginers above our own citizens according to some", but I bet those "some" are a lot less than you suspect. And I am not ONE of those "SOME".
It's interesting to me, what you choose to ignore from my posts and what you choose to focus on.
Not only that but most illegals are from Mexico. Mexico is a thriving society with a low unemployment rate, national health care and so much food that many of their people are obese.
How nice of you to take the time to research the country. You're concern for them is touching. Did you know that Obesity is a big problem in our Country too? So what's your point? Countries that have Obese people dont' have hungry people to?? Well, then great! Nobody's hungry in the US OR Mexico! Problem solved!
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I'm sick and tired of being told that I lack compassion if I demand they obey our immigration laws and go back there. If their own society is imperfect the solution is demand change in Mexico.
It's easy for us to say that when we happened to be born on the right side of the border.
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The solution is certainly not to santimoniously lecture
Yeah, it's awful when people do that. I hate it too.
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Americans on our moral need to honor the lives of lawbreakers with full access to our country and taxpayer subsidized benefits
Yeah, that money is better spent send our military over OTHER countries borders and butting our noses in THEIR business.
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The argument that someone somewhere breaks a law so ergo no one should be held accountable for criminal actions is not acceptable in a court of law. I have no idea why it should be acceptable in regards to this issue.
How nice of you to take the time to research the country. You're concern for them is touching. Did you know that Obesity is a big problem in our Country too? So what's your point? Countries that have Obese people dont' have hungry people to?? Well, then great! Nobody's hungry in the US OR Mexico! Problem solved!
I have the same concern for them that they have for me: none at all. Mexican poverty is not my problem to solve. It is Mexico's.
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It's easy for us to say that when we happened to be born on the right side of the border.
Roughly one third of the world lives on less than two bucks a day. Are two billion people entitled to move here? Or just Mexicans? Please clarify.
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Yeah, it's awful when people do that. I hate it too.
You might to stop then.
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Yeah, that money is better spent send our military over OTHER countries borders and butting our noses in THEIR business.
Ma'am, you have "no idea" about a lot of things.
Please explain to me why Americans should be in favor of low skilled Latinos, especially those from Mexico, being granted the unlimited right to live here and thereby collect all sorts of benefits from the American public. We have a recession and a great deal of unemployment. Please explain why you believe that we should import low skilled laborers who don't speak English to our nation.
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