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I’ve never received anything in the mail in Spanish. We do have several cable tv stations in Spanish. And we’re 30 minutes from the border. Don’t feel my identity as an American has been compromised.
I've mentioned this before but for those who haven't seen it --- Spanish was my Dad's first language. Despite that, whenever he had to call a business and got the recording that said "Para Espanol, oprime dos", he refused to do so. As he put it, it has no place in this country.
However, he did make an exception when we lived in PR for a time when I was a kid. If he had to call a business, he would speak Spanish then. That was understandable as Spanish is the official language in PR.
Because we had what was referred to as a "Spanish-American surname", once I was out on my own and had my phone number listed, I would sometimes get calls where the caller spoke Spanish. Same thing happened to my brother and SIL. They were living on Long Island then and they noticed that flyers with coupons and ads came to them in Spanish. My SIL made an interesting observation---she said the coupons printed in Spanish were better than the ones printed in English.
Those who think giving things in Spanish is being helpful, have it all wrong. What it does is discourage learning English. English is the language that binds us all. Many legal immigrants get it. For example, once when I was waiting in line to place an order, two young women behind me were conversing in English. Both had East Indian accents. What that told me was that they were from different parts of India and English was the one language they had in common.
Then there is this --- Many of the illegals are functionally illiterate and can't read all that signage in Spanish, let alone English.
Plus there is this takeaway --- We have people who have immigrated here from literally all over the world. The non-Spanish speakers don't get everything given to them in their native languages. Rather, they are expected to learn English.
Spanish was my dad's family's first language. My dad was first-generation born here. My grandmother made sure he learned English, and learned it well. She made sure he did everything the right way so as to assimilate, and also, I think, so that nothing could be used against him for coming from an immigrant family. He had to study hard, he had to dress respectfully, etc.
My mom's family's first language was English. She always wanted my dad to teach Spanish to my younger brother and me, but he refused. He would teach us small words here and there just for fun, but that was it. (I ended up taking it in school.) Sometimes I would hear my dad speaking in Spanish at big family get-togethers.
And because of my surname, I, too, have always gotten mail and phone calls in Spanish. This is different, though. Billboards, computer ads, now Spanish commercials on an English-speaking channel, that I've never seen before. Recently, we were eating at a restaurant and the people behind me wanted the waiter to speak in Spanish. I have never heard that before, and I've lived in So Cal my whole life.
Lately we've been seeing mothers who look to be immigrants begging for money with their children with them. This whole situation is obviously not going to end well, for anyone involved.
Better learn Spanish. It’s good for the economy and is a cost of doing business.
Assimilation died when the powers saw it would get in the way of letting in mass amounts of migrants on a sustained basis. It’s by design.
Could you elaborate please?
In case he has not I will. My ancestors came in the great wave of Central/Eastern European Jewish migration of the late 1800's and early 1900's. The fact is that many stayed behind because they were wedded to their "way of life," i.e. in the case of many living in modern Poland and Ukraine. By and large, they were slaughtered by the Nazis. Some, but not many late stragglers such as Menachem Begin made it to modern Israel, or the few countries that were still taking Jews. The world cynically wrung its hands while holding such grand conferences such as Evian (1938 or 1939) and Bermuda (1943 or 1944). These conferences were better at giving each country an opportunity to explain why it was not taking Jews then in finding places to which Jews could emigrate.
So, which two million or so did make it to the U.S., most of the 6,000,000 who were killed by the Nazis chose to stay behind and live the life of 16th Century Poland. Their surviving descendants still dress and live that way.
I can offer my opinion, while he is still formulating his answer to your request to elaborate over his statement: Assimilation died when the powers saw it would get in the way of letting in mass amounts of migrants on a sustained basis. It’s by design.
America used to require immigrants to assimilate. E pluribus unum. Immigrants were expected to adopt American language, culture, norms, dress, and habits. They were discourage from failing to assimulate in various ways. For example, if you went to court and could not speak or read English, you were not likely to win your case. You needed to learn conversational English in order to function in court.
More recently, US Progressives have encouraged immigrants NOT to assimilate. They are encouraged to embrace their tibal hypenated difference from all of the other American tribes, be it African American or Hispanic or Asian or East Indian, whathaveyou.
They encourage you NOT to learn English by providing all election material and court material & etc., in your old native home language, then provide interpreters at the police station if you are arrested or if you are making a crime report, etc. They have provided a cultural infrastructure to insure you never have to learn English and can function from cradle to grave without knowing any English, if you so choose. I see youtube videos of immigrants who have been in America for 25 or 30 years, and can't speak a single word in English to the reporter interviewing them.
The goal is Balkanization.
They don't want a melting pot of Americans assimilated from all manner of immigrants from a multitude of nations. No more E pluribus unum -- out of many, one. Now the goal is, out of many, remain many. Embrace your old cultural diffences rather than finding common similarities with other US subcultures.
As he said, this is by design. The goal of Balkanization is "divide and conquer". The US government wants us to be suspicious and distrustful of other "tribes", and not to help them when there is a need, but ignore their plight when we only look out for our "tribe".
He can elaborate when he meant by his statement, but I agreed with what he wrote and this is my explanation of what I agree with.
I am sure he will be happy to correct me if I am wrong in what I wrote.
Spanish was my dad's family's first language. My dad was first-generation born here. My grandmother made sure he learned English, and learned it well. She made sure he did everything the right way so as to assimilate, and also, I think, so that nothing could be used against him for coming from an immigrant family. He had to study hard, he had to dress respectfully, etc.
My mom's family's first language was English. She always wanted my dad to teach Spanish to my younger brother and me, but he refused. He would teach us small words here and there just for fun, but that was it. (I ended up taking it in school.) Sometimes I would hear my dad speaking in Spanish at big family get-togethers.
And because of my surname, I, too, have always gotten mail and phone calls in Spanish. This is different, though. Billboards, computer ads, now Spanish commercials on an English-speaking channel, that I've never seen before. Recently, we were eating at a restaurant and the people behind me wanted the waiter to speak in Spanish. I have never heard that before, and I've lived in So Cal my whole life.
Lately we've been seeing mothers who look to be immigrants begging for money with their children with them. This whole situation is obviously not going to end well, for anyone involved.
Excellent post^^^^! Your situation is very similar to mine.
In my Dad's case, he was born in PR and his family moved to NYC when he was an infant. He said he started learning English when he went to school. That was back in the late 1920s to early 1930s. He said all the kids in his class were kids of immigrants from different countries. There was no bilingual education or ESOL back then. However, he said that by the time the school year ended, he and his classmates all knew how to speak English.
My Dad wouldn't teach us Spanish. Like you, he would teach a few words here and there. Us kids had to learn Spanish by taking it in school.
I learned that in order to become fully fluent in Spanish, I would have had to totally immerse myself in the language. My last two years of HS were spent in PR. Since we lived in the San Juan metro area, lots of people were bilingual. When I would try to converse in my halting Spanish, they would answer me in English. I used to wish we lived up in the mountains where fewer people spoke English. So...we would have been, no doubt, totally immersed in it.
You are correct as of late, we are all seeing more and more billboards and commercials in Spanish. The DC police force occasionally has gone to PR to recruit cops who are bilingual. Other jurisdictions have done so, too.
As another poster upthread said (I'm paraphrasing here) if you plan to live in another country for a time, it's up to you to learn the local language. I say to not bother to learn the local language is downright rude and arrogant.
Sometimes I run into legal immigrants who are doing their best to learn English. They will speak to me in broken English and then apologize. I always tell them they're doing very well with their English. They are very pleased to hear that.
Excellent post^^^^! Your situation is very similar to mine.
In my Dad's case, he was born in PR and his family moved to NYC when he was an infant. He said he started learning English when he went to school. That was back in the late 1920s to early 1930s. He said all the kids in his class were kids of immigrants from different countries. There was no bilingual education or ESOL back then. However, he said that by the time the school year ended, he and his classmates all knew how to speak English.
My Dad wouldn't teach us Spanish. Like you, he would teach a few words here and there. Us kids had to learn Spanish by taking it in school.
My grandparents were from Mexico. Our dads sound about the same age.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD
I learned that in order to become fully fluent in Spanish, I would have had to totally immerse myself in the language. My last two years of HS were spent in PR. Since we lived in the San Juan metro area, lots of people were bilingual. When I would try to converse in my halting Spanish, they would answer me in English. I used to wish we lived up in the mountains where fewer people spoke English. So...we would have been, no doubt, totally immersed in it.
You are correct as of late, we are all seeing more and more billboards and commercials in Spanish. The DC police force occasionally has gone to PR to recruit cops who are bilingual. Other jurisdictions have done so, too.
As another poster upthread said (I'm paraphrasing here) if you plan to live in another country for a time, it's up to you to learn the local language. I say to not bother to learn the local language is downright rude and arrogant.
Sometimes I run into legal immigrants who are doing their best to learn English. They will speak to me in broken English and then apologize. I always tell them they're doing very well with their English. They are very pleased to hear that.
Heck, when or if we merely visit a non-English-speaking place for vacation, I want to at least have the basics of their language down.
I've known and worked with tons of people over the course of my lifetime where English was their second language. It doesn't have to be perfect to be able to easily communicate. I've always appreciated their effort. A lot of the time, I'll use the Spanish I know just to goof around and reciprocate. I let them test me.
I’ve never received anything in the mail in Spanish. We do have several cable tv stations in Spanish. And we’re 30 minutes from the border. Don’t feel my identity as an American has been compromised.
It's not about "your" identity.
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