U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-18-2008, 06:38 PM
 
16,092 posts, read 35,779,846 times
Reputation: 6264

Advertisements

Pass some Kool-Aid with tequila...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-18-2008, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Rural Central Texas
3,581 posts, read 9,002,297 times
Reputation: 5402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flame_Igniter View Post
First of all who is illegal immigrant? How come whites got authority to approve/disapprove any one from coming to US when they themselves are illegal. How come whites forget that they settled here after killing native americans and not legally by getting approval from indians.
Ok, I will play like this is a serious question for a minute. The illegal immigrant is the immigrant that breaks a law governing the act of immigrating. The whites got authority because they were the first in possession to make a law regarding the issue. The process of taking possession is irrelevant to the legality since there were no laws established by the prior possesser that prohibited the actions taken by the white men.

I would consider the trade of Manhattan Island to the white men an act of approval on the part of the Native Americans that conducted the trade. That they made a very poor exchange in hindsight or that they entered into a real estate negotiation without complete knowlege of the consequences of their actions is really a matter up for debate since we have no first hand evidence that they felt cheated on this matter. All of our condemnation of this trade occurs much later and after new values and insights have occurred.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Flame_Igniter View Post
Just because you have power, gun and a brutal heart like animals to kill innocent, doesn't make you legal here.
A techincal point here. I know of NO animals that have guns, and I am not sure a brutal heart is very descriptive of them either. Power is relative and not always in the same place twice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flame_Igniter View Post
So stop taking lives of innocent and let every one live in peace. Every one is just doing their best to earn a good life for their family. Just because you migrated here first doesn't give you authority to stop others from coming.
Authority by definition is at the descretion of those in charge, with possession being the strongest argument for being in charge. That said, those authorities can make whatever laws and restrictions they decide and that becomes force of law. The authority backing the law is the support of those recognized to be included in the community granting the governmental control.

You are absolutely correct that being first does not grant authority automatically. You must retain possession in order to hold authority. Authority can pass from group to group peacefully or by force when the community chooses to do so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2008, 06:52 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reads2MUCH View Post
For the love of God would you folks please stop with the whole "Indians were committing atrocities before we got here" crap. Indians were doing the same thing the white people were doing before they got here. Fighting amongst themselves because that's what we humans seem to like to do. You all seem to think that is some excuse for what the white man did when he came to this land. Sure, Indians fought each other. Every society that has ever existed has fought amongst themselves. But the way Indians are represented on this forum you would think all they ever did before we came was rape and murder each other between peace pipes.

You are spewing a load of crap. The Indians were and are a proud people with rich cultures and proud lineage. Yet those of white descent continually try to depict them as primitive savages which could not be farther from the truth. Stop trying to point your fingers at the Indians as if they were monsters when you all have a more than fair share of bloodshed in your own histories. Some of the most atrocious acts of violence and hate have been perpetrated by white men. Its simple history folks. All we really have on the Indians is a few hundred years of research by biased aristocratic white settlers. On the other hand we have thousands of years of history on the white, brown, and yellow races which give us detailed accounts of their barbarism. Everyone fights and everyone kills. Since Cain and Abel the cycle has continued. So stop pointing fingers, because they are all bloody. And never forget that the Indians were still a very natural people when we came here, living with nature and not destroying it. So who are the real savages?
Indians and whites are each guilty of trying to kill the other, by means of toxic substances. Whites introduced Indians to alcohol; Indians introduced whites to tobacco. Neither group understood how to use the new substances in moderation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2008, 06:56 PM
 
394 posts, read 896,330 times
Reputation: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrex62 View Post
Ok, I will play like this is a serious question for a minute. The illegal immigrant is the immigrant that breaks a law governing the act of immigrating. The whites got authority because they were the first in possession to make a law regarding the issue. The process of taking possession is irrelevant to the legality since there were no laws established by the prior possesser that prohibited the actions taken by the white men.

I would consider the trade of Manhattan Island to the white men an act of approval on the part of the Native Americans that conducted the trade. That they made a very poor exchange in hindsight or that they entered into a real estate negotiation without complete knowlege of the consequences of their actions is really a matter up for debate since we have no first hand evidence that they felt cheated on this matter. All of our condemnation of this trade occurs much later and after new values and insights have occurred.





A techincal point here. I know of NO animals that have guns, and I am not sure a brutal heart is very descriptive of them either. Power is relative and not always in the same place twice.




Authority by definition is at the descretion of those in charge, with possession being the strongest argument for being in charge. That said, those authorities can make whatever laws and restrictions they decide and that becomes force of law. The authority backing the law is the support of those recognized to be included in the community granting the governmental control.

You are absolutely correct that being first does not grant authority automatically. You must retain possession in order to hold authority. Authority can pass from group to group peacefully or by force when the community chooses to do so.
well, very well said, especially for a guy from rural central texas......just kiddin...1 rep 4u
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2008, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reads2MUCH View Post
For the love of God would you folks please stop with the whole "Indians were committing atrocities before we got here" crap. Indians were doing the same thing the white people were doing before they got here. Fighting amongst themselves because that's what we humans seem to like to do. You all seem to think that is some excuse for what the white man did when he came to this land. Sure, Indians fought each other. Every society that has ever existed has fought amongst themselves. But the way Indians are represented on this forum you would think all they ever did before we came was rape and murder each other between peace pipes.

You are spewing a load of crap. The Indians were and are a proud people with rich cultures and proud lineage. Yet those of white descent continually try to depict them as primitive savages which could not be farther from the truth. Stop trying to point your fingers at the Indians as if they were monsters when you all have a more than fair share of bloodshed in your own histories. Some of the most atrocious acts of violence and hate have been perpetrated by white men. Its simple history folks. All we really have on the Indians is a few hundred years of research by biased aristocratic white settlers. On the other hand we have thousands of years of history on the white, brown, and yellow races which give us detailed accounts of their barbarism. Everyone fights and everyone kills. Since Cain and Abel the cycle has continued. So stop pointing fingers, because they are all bloody. And never forget that the Indians were still a very natural people when we came here, living with nature and not destroying it. So who are the real savages?
I hate to pop your bubble but all human beings are not only the same species; all of our forefathers hailed from East Africa 60K years ago as well.

DNA does not lie.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2008, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrex62 View Post
ok, i will play like this is a serious question for a minute. The illegal immigrant is the immigrant that breaks a law governing the act of immigrating. The whites got authority because they were the first in possession to make a law regarding the issue. The process of taking possession is irrelevant to the legality since there were no laws established by the prior possesser that prohibited the actions taken by the white men.

I would consider the trade of manhattan island to the white men an act of approval on the part of the native americans that conducted the trade. That they made a very poor exchange in hindsight or that they entered into a real estate negotiation without complete knowlege of the consequences of their actions is really a matter up for debate since we have no first hand evidence that they felt cheated on this matter. All of our condemnation of this trade occurs much later and after new values and insights have occurred.





A techincal point here. I know of no animals that have guns, and i am not sure a brutal heart is very descriptive of them either. Power is relative and not always in the same place twice.




Authority by definition is at the descretion of those in charge, with possession being the strongest argument for being in charge. That said, those authorities can make whatever laws and restrictions they decide and that becomes force of law. The authority backing the law is the support of those recognized to be included in the community granting the governmental control.

You are absolutely correct that being first does not grant authority automatically. You must retain possession in order to hold authority. Authority can pass from group to group peacefully or by force when the community chooses to do so.
BINGO!

You summed it up in a nutshell.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2008, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,173,806 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Who is Illegal Immigrant?
Based upon your writing style, spelling and syntax I'd venture to guess that YOU were the illegal alien.

Do I win a prize???
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2008, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
391 posts, read 740,112 times
Reputation: 103
Great post I too feel the same. Good grief if that post doesn't get through the thick headed nothing will. Man is created EQUAL or do some not see that? We took the land by force. We raped and pillaged the people to steal the land. It so sad we are leaving this wretched legacy to our kids. Not one of us own any of this land we are borrowing it and distroying it. I know one is looking down at us and saying.... will they ever get it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2008, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,173,806 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by chey2u View Post
Great post I too feel the same. Good grief if that post doesn't get through the thick headed nothing will. Man is created EQUAL or do some not see that? We took the land by force. We raped and pillaged the people to steal the land. It so sad we are leaving this wretched legacy to our kids. Not one of us own any of this land we are borrowing it and distroying it. I know one is looking down at us and saying.... will they ever get it?
You're kidding, right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2008, 07:38 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,033,451 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by chey2u View Post
Great post I too feel the same. Good grief if that post doesn't get through the thick headed nothing will. Man is created EQUAL or do some not see that? We took the land by force. We raped and pillaged the people to steal the land. It so sad we are leaving this wretched legacy to our kids. Not one of us own any of this land we are borrowing it and distroying it. I know one is looking down at us and saying.... will they ever get it?
I understand what you are getting at....but really, do you think it makes us good guardians of this land by inviting an extra 100+ million people in?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top