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Also, another problem that I've stated and nobody has answered is how do we rectify the potential increase in of the informal sector? Not only would it negate e-verify, but cause economic harm. Shouldn't we also address this as well?
Several public policy professors have agreed that without some increased legal channel, e-verify would do more harm than good. Not only due to impacting millions, but in aiding the informal sector.
The question becomes, 4% of what number. This is why people take issue. There are about 140 million working Americans. Thus 4% of that is 5,600,000. That's a large number. That's about 2% of the ENTIRE population of the United States. What system will we have in place to hear the concerns of 5.6 million people? That's a big undertaking.
So why not IMPROVE the system. Notice, nobody has answered this question.
This is a nice try. Make the numbers look huge & cumbersome. B ut let's examine this, shall we?
First, while there may indeed be 140 million working Americans, plus some unknown number of working illegal aliens, a far smaller number actually apply for a job each year. I don't know what that number is, but let's say, for tha sake of argument, that it's 25% of the work force, or 35 million people. With an accuracy rate of 96%, 33.6 million people will have no issue at all. Potentially, 1.4 million will have an issue. Much smaller than your stated 5.6 million. Further, for the overwhelming majority of these, who of course are citizens or legal residents, it will be a simple matter to provide the proof of citizenship or legal residence and get the matter resolved. And as American citizens or legal residents, most of those people will not be angry or upset at all to be asked to provide that information. And for the ones who are not legal, well, I'm not everly concerned that this would inconvenience them a bit.
Of course you work to improve the system. But you put the system into effect with it's 96% accuracy, and you work to make it better from there. You do not keep waiting & waiting until it's perfect, as almost nothing is ever perfect.
And you still haven't answered the question; What difficulty would be faced by American citizens & legal residents?
Also, another problem that I've stated and nobody has answered is how do we rectify the potential increase in of the informal sector? Not only would it negate e-verify, but cause economic harm. Shouldn't we also address this as well?
Several public policy professors have agreed that without some increased legal channel, e-verify would do more harm than good. Not only due to impacting millions, but in aiding the informal sector.
The "informal sector", which is more correctly name the illegal employment sector, gets dealt with at the same time. First, as those illegals are identified through e-verify or other means, they get deported. So the pook of available illegal labor shrinks, which inherently makes it more expensive for employers. At the same time, serious, severe, financially debilitating fines are put in place to punish those companies that choose to break the law & hire illegals. Make it so that getting caught hiring one illegal costs as much as hiring 10 legal employees would have cost. And get serious about looking for those illegal hires. That kind of risk will curtail much of the illegal hiring.
The "informal sector", which is more correctly name the illegal employment sector, gets dealt with at the same time. First, as those illegals are identified through e-verify or other means, they get deported. So the pook of available illegal labor shrinks, which inherently makes it more expensive for employers. At the same time, serious, severe, financially debilitating fines are put in place to punish those companies that choose to break the law & hire illegals. Make it so that getting caught hiring one illegal costs as much as hiring 10 legal employees would have cost. And get serious about looking for those illegal hires. That kind of risk will curtail much of the illegal hiring.
Informal sector? Is this some attempt to label illegal businesses with something more savory? Something like call girl vs prostitute? It never ends with the pro-criminal crowd does it.
Informal sector? Is this some attempt to label illegal businesses with something more savory? Something like call girl vs prostitute? It never ends with the pro-criminal crowd does it.
The pro illegal advocate involved in the discussion is the only person I have seen use the term. I will correct his misnomer every time I see it.
Informal sector? Is this some attempt to label illegal businesses with something more savory? Something like call girl vs prostitute? It never ends with the pro-criminal crowd does it.
Come on, don't you know we are all supposed to get on board with the new PC language that the pro-illegals are pushing? "Undocumented, immigrants instead of illegal aliens,etc. and now "informal sector" instead of law breaking breaking employers"?
The question becomes, 4% of what number. This is why people take issue. There are about 140 million working Americans. Thus 4% of that is 5,600,000. That's a large number. That's about 2% of the ENTIRE population of the United States. What system will we have in place to hear the concerns of 5.6 million people? That's a big undertaking.
So why not IMPROVE the system. Notice, nobody has answered this question.
10+% unemployment
The cost of crimes committed by illegals.
12+ million illegals that need to be held accountable.
because the majority of US citizens want it implemented.
There are 4 valid reasons.
The 5th To force those who hire illegals to change their practices.
4% of ALL workers is MINUTE? That's A LOT of people. I don't understand the illogic of not wanting to make the system better before implementation.
But by implementing the system now, it will help to weed out these errors. A large number of errors are due to women marrying or divorcing, and then not following up by changing the name that they have on file with the Social Security Administration. A single trip to the nearest SSA office with the proper documents (marriage license, divorce documents, birth certificate, driver's license, SS card) and the error can be easily corrected. Other errors are due to incorrect or transposed numbers of a person's SSN in the database. This too can be easily corrected with a single trip to the nearest SSA office with SS card in hand.
[quote=Bill Keegan;12512732]This is a nice try. Make the numbers look huge & cumbersome. B ut let's examine this, shall we?
Not trying, just taking the facts.
First, while there may indeed be 140 million working Americans, plus some unknown number of working illegal aliens, a far smaller number actually apply for a job each year.
It's not just new employees, but former employees that would enrolled as per my understanding. If you have a federal contract, ALL workers are req. to be screened...not just new hires.
I don't know what that number is, but let's say, for tha sake of argument, that it's 25% of the work force, or 35 million people. With an accuracy rate of 96%, 33.6 million people will have no issue at all. Potentially, 1.4 million will have an issue.
Again, it does depend on whether or not ALL workers are req. It's not that much of a stretch since employers that obtain federal contracts must have ALL (previous and prospective) workers screened. Thus, the 5.6 million of the federal gov't is any model for the use of e-verify.
Much smaller than your stated 5.6 million. Further, for the overwhelming majority of these, who of course are citizens or legal residents, it will be a simple matter to provide the proof of citizenship or legal residence and get the matter resolved. And as American citizens or legal residents, most of those people will not be angry or upset at all to be asked to provide that information. And for the ones who are not legal, well, I'm not everly concerned that this would inconvenience them a bit.
There have already been cases of people who were laid off due to inconsistencies of e-verify. So, it's not always just a slight inconvenience. It can be a big deal.
The reason is due to the large number of inconsistent records approx 17 million (be it birth dates, wrong spelling of names, etc.). This creates a backlog and could take a while to resolve. This backlog could, and has, resulted in the wrongful termination of people in our weak economy.
Of course you work to improve the system. But you put the system into effect with it's 96% accuracy, and you work to make it better from there. You do not keep waiting & waiting until it's perfect, as almost nothing is ever perfect.
In a weak economy, you don't want to burden the system and you don't want to do harm.
The accuracy rate is only part of the equation. What about the whole rise of the informal sector? Employers may simply not want to subject their employees to this. Thus, these employees are not on the books. This really negates the work of e-verify and now causes it to be simply an expensive ineffectual mandate.
You need to not only work out the kinks, but put a plan in place to not have this under the table, black market economy.
And you still haven't answered the question; What difficulty would be faced by American citizens & legal residents?
Informal sector? Is this some attempt to label illegal businesses with something more savory? Something like call girl vs prostitute? It never ends with the pro-criminal crowd does it.
You've never heard that term? Informal economies don't always have to "illegal". For example a lemonade stand is part of the informal economy. If your neighbor paid you for a service... and you weren't taxed on said payment...this is also part of the informal sector. If you paid your child to take out the trash...guess what? Informal sector. Simply anything not regulated is a part of the informal sector. It's not PC, it's a valid economic term.
Black market is a subset of the informal sector, specifically for contrband.
Chinut, please be informed rather than spout out knee jerk reactions. It really makes you look ignorant.
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