What makes some "papers" inconvenient but others aren't? (certificate, visas)
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My point is that when people against this law decry having to "lug papers around", it makes no sense since everything, from driver's licenses, social security cards, health insurance cards, green cards, my Best Buy card, credit cards etc all fit in the same place. It's not a 3-ring binder full of paperwork if you're here legally and even if you are from a foreign country, a passport isn't that cumbersome.
I see your point that for specific activities you have to provide documentation. The problem with the AZ law is not that a non-citizen has to carry their green card with them at all times, it's that until the law was amended a few days ago, anyone could be stopped for suspicion of being in the country illegally and asked for ID. I have to admit to having gone to the grocery store and other places w/o such ID that would prove I'm here legally. If I don't drive, I don't always bring my license along.
Well, one man was taken to jail already as a suspected illegal because he would not show his birth certificate AFTER he had shown his driver's license. His wife had to bring his birth certificate to the police station before he was released.
Does Arizona issue driver's licenses to illegal immigrants? From what I understand it does not. I know in WA state you have to show two forms of ID (Birth Certificate, passport, state ID card) that prove you are a citizen to even get a driver's license.
I have never been asked for ID other than my driver's license while driving, have you? That is the problem with this law, it is vague enough that it will be abused by cops that have no business in the profession.
Well, one man was taken to jail already as a suspected illegal because he would not show his birth certificate AFTER he had shown his driver's license. His wife had to bring his birth certificate to the police station before he was released.
Does Arizona issue driver's licenses to illegal immigrants? From what I understand it does not. I know in WA state you have to show two forms of ID (Birth Certificate, passport, state ID card) that prove you are a citizen to even get a driver's license.
I have never been asked for ID other than my driver's license while driving, have you? That is the problem with this law, it is vague enough that it will be abused by cops that have no business in the profession.
It was Customs that was involved in that incident and they say they were following their policies. Don't mix apples with oranges here.
Sure there are bad cops around. Some that investigate murders, rapes, bank robberies but should we do away with those laws because there are "some" bad cops who don't follow policy? We live in a world where there are no perfect human beings including cops.
I could be wrong, but I have been told that no states require citizenship to issue a drivers license. The birth certificate and picture id is to establish identity, not citizenship. There was a stink a while back that TX, AZ, CA and NM were issuing drivers licenses to Mexican citizens. There is also no citizenship requirement for property ownership. Many foreign nationals own property in the US.
In fact, aside from a passport, there is currently NO document that proves US citizenship.
Well, one man was taken to jail already as a suspected illegal because he would not show his birth certificate AFTER he had shown his driver's license. His wife had to bring his birth certificate to the police station before he was released.
Does Arizona issue driver's licenses to illegal immigrants? From what I understand it does not. I know in WA state you have to show two forms of ID (Birth Certificate, passport, state ID card) that prove you are a citizen to even get a driver's license.
I have never been asked for ID other than my driver's license while driving, have you? That is the problem with this law, it is vague enough that it will be abused by cops that have no business in the profession.
Obviously, you have never visited the illegal alien forum DAP. Perhaps the reason the cop requested additional info is due to the fact that some states issue licenses to illegals, while other states make it ridiculously easy for them to fraudulently obtain one.
Here’s the initial post. Needless to say, it was a very popular thread.
Quote:
Hey everyone, after reading about others getting a driver's license in WA, I've decided to make the trip to WA and get mine before the summer ends. I was wondering if anyone else wants to come with, I think it'd be easier to go as a group, and cheaper to split the fees.
Does Arizona issue driver's licenses to illegal immigrants? From what I understand it does not. I know in WA state you have to show two forms of ID (Birth Certificate, passport, state ID card) that prove you are a citizen to even get a driver's license.
Different states have different laws. They are also cracking down on drivers licenses from states that are known to hand out licenses to "anyone." States that Arizona does NOT accept licenses from are Hawaii, Illinois, New Mexico, Washington, and Utah. If you move from one of those states, you have to bring more than just your old driver's license to get an AZ license. I'd assume if you were pulled over by the police, those state licenses would probably cause you to be questioned longer.
You DO have to be in the country legally to get a license. When you first go for your license, you are supposed to bring your birth certificate or naturalization papers, your permanent resident card, military id card, passport, etc. You don't have to be born in the US, but you do have to show proof that you are now a citizen or in the process of becoming a citizen.
When I lived in AZ, I remember their driver's licenses being pretty "high tech"...and when I got a speeding ticket, I had to put my finger on this fingerprint machine the officer had. He scanned my fingerprint and compared it to the one on my license. Nothing is perfect...there's plenty of fake ids out there, but to have a driver's license from Arizona, you DO have to be a citizen, or at least in the process of obtaining your citizenship.
I see your point that for specific activities you have to provide documentation. The problem with the AZ law is not that a non-citizen has to carry their green card with them at all times, it's that until the law was amended a few days ago, anyone could be stopped for suspicion of being in the country illegally and asked for ID. I have to admit to having gone to the grocery store and other places w/o such ID that would prove I'm here legally. If I don't drive, I don't always bring my license along.
Right...there are also times when I am just a passenger in a car so I don't grab my wallet. I would assume, if you are walking down the street to "get an ice cream" in Arizona and for some reason, the police officer asked for your i.d., you could tell him/her that it's at home but you're happy to let them take you home to get it.
There are some cops out there who are (let's face it) a complete pain in the arse. But I put my faith in the police officers and know that they have been doing their job without controversy in Phoenix so I don't think that the passing of this bill is suddenly going to turn them into racist harassers. Most officers patrol the same areas and know who's who. I know the 3 who regularly patrol in my neighborhood and we often wave at each other when they're doing patrols and I'm outside. The police aren't going to be running down people standing on the street near Home Depot. They're not supposed to be doing that anyway since it's against the law in Arizona...but they already know that so even without the law, when they see a cop, they scatter.
Right...there are also times when I am just a passenger in a car so I don't grab my wallet. I would assume, if you are walking down the street to "get an ice cream" in Arizona and for some reason, the police officer asked for your i.d., you could tell him/her that it's at home but you're happy to let them take you home to get it.
There are some cops out there who are (let's face it) a complete pain in the arse. But I put my faith in the police officers and know that they have been doing their job without controversy in Phoenix so I don't think that the passing of this bill is suddenly going to turn them into racist harassers. Most officers patrol the same areas and know who's who. I know the 3 who regularly patrol in my neighborhood and we often wave at each other when they're doing patrols and I'm outside. The police aren't going to be running down people standing on the street near Home Depot. They're not supposed to be doing that anyway since it's against the law in Arizona...but they already know that so even without the law, when they see a cop, they scatter.
The point is, the cops should be not walking up to random people and asking them for their "papers". No American citizen is required to carry any form of ID, just to be carrying it. I realize the law has been amended so that there has to be another reason to stop a person (was not in the original law), but still it's inappropriate for US citizens and legal aliens to be asked for ID. That is the issue with this law.
The point is, the cops should be not walking up to random people and asking them for their "papers". No American citizen is required to carry any form of ID, just to be carrying it. I realize the law has been amended so that there has to be another reason to stop a person (was not in the original law), but still it's inappropriate for US citizens and legal aliens to be asked for ID. That is the issue with this law.
The law never said that (even in the first draft), but now that it's been revised, it very specifically says you have to be stopped for a reason.
We also aren't talking about a place where there are a small number of Hispanics living in the city. It's Phoenix...the police who do their jobs every day have never been labeled as "racist" and even Sheriff Joe Arpaio (the master of self-promotion and the person all the lefties love to hate) has been undergoing an investigation for a year to determine whether he's been racially profiling and they've found nothing.
The police in Phoenix aren't going to turn into racists if they weren't before...the law doesn't change the fact that they've been doing their job well before it was signed and will continue to do their jobs well after. The police haven't been sitting around waiting for this law to be passed so they can walk around and start terrorizing Hispanics for no reason. They have responsibilities too and know that asking a guy out for ice cream if he has papers is stupid.
You do not have to carry "papers" with you at all times as a citizen. If you are driving a car, you have to carry your driver's license, the car registration, and in some states, proof of insurance. You do not have to have your social security card on your person at all times, in fact, I have read that it is recommended that you don't carry it in your wallet, purse, etc. You do not have to show your health insurance card unless you are obtaining health care, and it is not any type of "ID" card anyway. Even under the new health care law, people will continue to carry private insurance, with every company having a different card. Personal credit cards have nothing to do with citizenship. I've used my credit card in Canada and my ATM card in Europe. I don't understand what you're getting at with a mortgage application; I don't remember having to produce any ID saying I was in the US legally to buy my house.
I just bought some property and they took a copy of my DL as my ID.
I was told to bring proof of identity to closing.
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