Shooting at Northern Illinois University. (Naperville, Virginia: buy, movies, elementary school)

[via chicago]

Originally Posted by Radek

But it isn't our video games. Its something in our culture, our upbringing, and I think it has a lot to do with the need to be 'in'. And the social structure requiring that for you to be 'in', someone has to be 'out'.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Mark Brown in the Sun-Times summed it up best: "I believe we've got a screw loose in our collective psyches, a mental illness of frightening proportions that manifests itself in these spasms of violence."

[nanannie]

The killer has just been identified as a 27 yr old (male) graduate. Grew up in Elk Grove Village,graduated High School there, moved to Shaumburg. His father lives in Florida. No note, or 'reason' was left behind.

[arpschneider]

Originally Posted by eevee

SO, you won't blame the parents, the people who have probably raised this child from birth, but you'll blame the makers of a video game? huh? what, you wanna add rap music, Marilyn Manson, and the Sopranos to that list?

Well, let's compare what kind of "entertainment" was available to the "aging boomers" when we were kids compared to what's being fed to kids nowadays. I remember things like The Lone Ranger, Gunsmoke, Father Knows Best, I love Lucy and many others. Somehow, I don't recall near the level of dysfunctionality as is rampant in things like the Sopranos, Californication, etc.

And if you listen to the lyrics of some of the Rap music, it's pretty wretched and certainly makes ME cringe.

if you blame the video games, doesn't that blame swing back around to the parents who initially bought the games (or bought the child's first console)? I just always found it so, well, retarded, when people blame forms of media for stuff like this. but that's just me

Let's face it: the dysfunctionality of the family is extremely pervasive in our culture. Our daughter is a single Mom (not by her choice!) who tries her best to take her kids to church and set a good example for them, and thank God that our daughter has us as her "support system" to raise the kids. Many single parents nowadays are trying
to do whatever it takes to put bread on the table and have to work either long hours or in undesirable situations other than the typical 9-to-5 workdauy that was so prevalent when the "boomers" were raised under. Our daughter has to tend bar and sometimes doesn't come home until 3 AM, so frequently, she doesn't even SEE her kids some days at ALL (my wife gets them up and ready for school)

Less discriminating people use whatever means they can find to "shut-up the kids" so they can do what it takes to survive themselves, so are looking for the "quick fix", such as TV or video games.

You're absolutely right: it DOES go back to the parents, in terms of ultimate responsibility for what the kids do for entertainment, but if some of these less-than-desirable forms of entertainment weren't out there to begin-with, then hopefully parents would be forced to make better choices. Many parents are simply "clueless" about what some of these games are like, and many of them simply don't have the time to investigate them thoroughly for themselves.

Truly, what kind of redeeming value is there in a video game that glorifies "killing cops"? I'm especially offended with such games because my middle son proudly serves as a police officer in the Phoenix metroplex and my biggest nightmare is that one day, I may have to bury my son. It would be very hard to find forgiveness in my heart if I were to learn that his attacker was some "loser" video addict that spent his time playing "cop killers" video games while he was growing-up because his mama was simply too busy trying to "do life" herself to care what her kid did.

anyways, it's way too early to play the blame game. let's at least wait until things have quieted done and more info surfaces before pointing the fingers at EA and other game manufacturers

I learned this morning that yet another victim died and without a doubt, no matter how this came about, this is a completely senseless tragedy. Our hearts and prayers go out to the families of the victims.

[via chicago]

Originally Posted by arpschneider

Well, let's compare what kind of "entertainment" was available to the "aging boomers" when we were kids compared to what's being fed to kids nowadays. I remember things like The Lone Ranger, Gunsmoke, Father Knows Best, I love Lucy and many others. Somehow, I don't recall near the level of dysfunctionality as is rampant in things like the Sopranos, Californication, etc.

And if you listen to the lyrics of some of the Rap music, it's pretty wretched and certainly makes ME cringe.



Let's face it: the dysfunctionality of the family is extremely pervasive in our culture. Our daughter is a single Mom (not by her choice!) who tries her best to take her kids to church and set a good example for them, and thank God that our daughter has us as her "support system" to raise the kids. Many single parents nowadays are trying
to do whatever it takes to put bread on the table and have to work either long hours or in undesirable situations other than the typical 9-to-5 workdauy that was so prevalent when the "boomers" were raised under. Our daughter has to tend bar and sometimes doesn't come home until 3 AM, so frequently, she doesn't even SEE her kids some days at ALL (my wife gets them up and ready for school)

Less discriminating people use whatever means they can find to "shut-up the kids" so they can do what it takes to survive themselves, so are looking for the "quick fix", such as TV or video games.

You're absolutely right: it DOES go back to the parents, in terms of ultimate responsibility for what the kids do for entertainment, but if some of these less-than-desirable forms of entertainment weren't out there to begin-with, then hopefully parents would be forced to make better choices. Many parents are simply "clueless" about what some of these games are like, and many of them simply don't have the time to investigate them thoroughly for themselves.

Truly, what kind of redeeming value is there in a video game that glorifies "killing cops"? I'm especially offended with such games because my middle son proudly serves as a police officer in the Phoenix metroplex and my biggest nightmare is that one day, I may have to bury my son. It would be very hard to find forgiveness in my heart if I were to learn that his attacker was some "loser" video addict that spent his time playing "cop killers" video games while he was growing-up because his mama was simply too busy trying to "do life" herself to care what her kid did.



I learned this morning that yet another victim died and without a doubt, no matter how this came about, this is a completely senseless tragedy. Our hearts and prayers go out to the families of the victims.

This is the same tired argument that gets pulled up everytime something like this happends. This wasnt a kid...this was a 27 year old adult.

And are you telling me Gunsmoke wasn't violent? Everyone tends to look back on their youth in rose colored glasses. Nostalgia will do that. But the fact is the world has ALWAYS been a messed up place. Senseless violence has been here since the dawn of man, and will be here until we obliterate ourselves off the face of this rock we live on. Lets just face facts..humans are a fundamentally flawed species.

[aragx6]

I think the copy cat argument, is worth looking into. 3 major shootings in 2 weeks? Something is up.

[mdz]

Last word is that he stopped his medications and was behaving erratically lately.

There are bad people out there, no doubt, but these tragedies are almost always associated with severe mental illness. People will bring up guns as the cause, or lack of guns, or too much violence, or too much sex, or what have you (and these are good things to debate), but we have to do something to help take care of those who are sick. I don't know what the answer is to prevent these things from happening, I sure wish someone did.

A horrible day to be an Illinoisan. To everybody touched by this, thoughts and prayers are with you.

[M TYPE X]

Originally Posted by moving123456

Didn't he see the "Gun Free Zone" signs? Maybe they need to put up more of them.

Obama will fix our racial hurts, rotting infrastructure, make peace with China and Russia, and ... can't talk now, the truckload of the signs is here! We can continue the "kids these days" talk when I return.

[InformedConsent]

There are bad people out there, no doubt, but these tragedies are almost always associated with severe mental illness.

When the Secret Service examined case studies, they found that school shooters had no history of established mental illness.

The Chicago Sun-Times published a lengthy series in 2000 analyzing information shared by the Secret Service concerning 37 school shootings in Deadly Lessons: School Shooters Tell Why.

In more than 70% of the case studies, the shooters were bullied, taunted, and/or felt ostracized.

The shooters also did not have a history of drug or substance abuse. Some were under treatment for depression and stress caused by the bullying and isolation.

From a shooter's journal...

"I am not insane. I am angry... I killed because people like me are mistreated every day... I am malicious because I am miserable."

Full text of Sun-Times series (pdf file):
http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICDocs/data...0/16/bb/8e.pdf (http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICDocs/data/ericdocs2sql/content_storage_01/0000019b/80/16/bb/8e.pdf - broken link)

[Katarina Witt]

I went to a seminar once on workplace violence. The presenter was a consultant on the Columbine shootings. He stated that no one "just snaps". The people who commit these acts are troubled.

[mdz]

Thanks for the article, informedconsent, I'll have to read that. Is there a difference, I wonder, between "older" shooters and teenager shooters? Meaning that kids who do this stuff are more the types that were bullied, what have you, and the older ones tend to be more mentally ill?