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Is buying a house in Marion County a bad move?
Do houses in Marion County hold no resale value?
It seems that people I know prefer living in the suburbs. Marion County in general has bad schools and higher crime.
What areas in Indianapolis would offer schools comparable to the suburbs and where the value of homes remains strong. Is there sucha area in marion County?
Question for "families" that live in downtown: how do you with children: schools, entertaining, friends... It is viable to stay in marion county with children and still offer them everything they would get in suburbs.
I am looking into buying a house and I really like living near where I work (downtown) but do not want to be stuck with a house I wont be able to sell in the future or will have to take a big depreciation when selling it.
Well you have to know Marion County first. There are 9 townships, IPS being in Center Township (the school district you do not want, but they have the most resources). All of the other townships tend to be very good educationally. Perry Township houses two, Southport and Perry Meridian with PM being the better of the two. The NW corner is Pike Township, North Central is Washington Township (North Central High School). North East is Lawrence (Lawrence Schools, city of lawrence). The north side is by far the most popular side and is the most affluent, esp. the closer you get to Hamilton County.
Central Marion is Wayne to the West (Ben Davis), Center (Downtown) and Warren (Warren Central). The east side has been stagnant for several years now outside of places like Irvington. South is Decatur to the West, Perry Central and Franklin Township to the SE. Franklin and Decatur are by far the last populated townships but the perry/franklin border houses Beech Grove. For the most part, you can get the same style housing on the south side as the north side but at a cheaper price and as I stated earlier, the township schools are good and you get to stay in Marion County.
Living downtown or around downtown, I would say you would want a private school over IPS but entertainment is there, with the museums, canal, movie theater to take the children to, zoo, parks so on and so forth. For the most part, the majority of your entertainment will be in Marion County and the majority of crime occurs for the most part within the old city limits IPD east district. All along North Capital they have been revitalizing as well as on the near east side, just east of the the splits. Just west of lockerbie, at least a few years ago, there were incentives to move in as long as you were willing to put in some of the work. A member of my church lives down there and love it as it's quiet and crime free.
Last edited by msamhunter; 06-24-2011 at 06:11 PM..
what about resale value of houses in the different townships and downtown compared to suburbs like Zionsville, Avon or Fisher?
If you measure it from a investment stand point, where you would buy your next house: Marion County or one of the suburbs?
Talking about suburbs, would there be a significant difference in retained house value between Avon or Zionsville?
I would venture to say they would all be comparable when comparing comparable neighborhoods between the outlying counties and Marion County. Right now the housing market here is picking back up very nicely. Over the last year or so just about all houses in central indiana was taking a loss. Didn't matter where you lived but the housing will hold comparable.
If I were to sell my house, I personally would move back into Marion County. I'm in Johnson County now, but would definitely move back into Marion County, more than likely back to Franklin Township. From an investment standpoint, I would buy close to downtown, fixer upper; put in the sweat equity and then resell after gentrification, but that's just me.
Overall zionsville is more affluent than Avon so you are not really comparing apples to apples, but Zionsville does have a nice little charm to it esp. downtown.
what about resale value of houses in the different townships and downtown compared to suburbs like Zionsville, Avon or Fisher?
If you measure it from a investment stand point, where you would buy your next house: Marion County or one of the suburbs?
Talking about suburbs, would there be a significant difference in retained house value between Avon or Zionsville?
I think it's hard to say how things will go once the housing market rebounds. Here in Fishers, housing has never really appreciated that much because there's so much new construction against which the existing stock has to compete. I think this is less of an issue in Carmel and Zionsville. But if I had to lay money on it, I'd bet that a lot of areas of Washington Township in Marion County will appreciate better once things get going again.
what about resale value of houses in the different townships and downtown compared to suburbs like Zionsville, Avon or Fisher?
If you measure it from a investment stand point, where you would buy your next house: Marion County or one of the suburbs?
Talking about suburbs, would there be a significant difference in retained house value between Avon or Zionsville?
Homes are our shelters. Thinking of them as "investments" can really get one burned. Over decades, I could see believing that the home should increase in value, but only if one actually pays a mortgage for 20-30 years. Unfortunately, people have been conditioned to believe that homes should be costly, that it is OK to pay on them for 20, 30, or 40 years, that you should take out home equity lines of credit or loans every so often and dump thousands into the home, etc.. This is all smoke and mirrors from those groups who stand to benefit: Home improvement shops, lending institutions, Nat'l. Association of Realtors, home improvement companies, etc..
Unless you plan on staying in a home for a long time, especially given the current state of the global economy, going into a home thinking of it as an investment, where you might have to move in five to ten years, is extremely risky. There are so many issues to analyze, it makes sense to never, ever think of a home as an investment. Think of it as shelter, which is what it is. Homes allow humans to survive Indiana's brutal winter environment.
If one absolutely must measure from an investment stand point, how can you go wrong with Carmel or Zionsville? Having been thinking about moving to Hamilton County, I have seen some homes in Carmel going for about $135K, older homes which is what I like (all brick or stone) that have been totally remodeled inside, 1,700+ sq. ft. on half-acre or larger lots. Back when I purchased my home in 2005, a home like that in Carmel was going for around $160K, if not more. Right now, there are only a handful of similar homes in that price range. Some folks have similar homes, but are asking $10-$20K more, likely because they can't go any lower. This is exactly why one shouldn't think of a home as an investment. Go in with at least 10-15% down, and start attacking that mortgage with principle only payments. That way if you have to sell because you have to relocate, you can at least take a hit and move on. Otherwise, you are going to be out of luck and stuck like a lot of folks are now.
This is actually a very interesting question from a real estate perspective. My gut tells me the suburbs are a better/safer investment because schools have such a huge impact on demand and therefor prices. However, I always like to check my gut with facts so I ran a few quick numbers. Here is a very quick glance at Marion vs. Hamilton County average sales price for 2005 to 2011 YTD:
This is painting with a VERY broad brush but since 2005 Marion has seen a 6.69% decrease while Hamilton has seen a 1.98% decrease in average sales price using 2010 numbers. I don't have time to break it down every which way, but this is something I am sure your Realtor can help you with. As the PP mentioned, Marion county is wildly different and the numbers I showed above don't really show a true picture. I suspect if you looked at Washington Township vs. Center Township you have a completely different picture.
All that being, there are winners and losers in every area. I keep a list of the biggest subdivisions in the areas I work and I have some that had double digit gains last year and some with just as bad losses. We can generalize but I don't think it is as simple as the suburbs are a better investment than Marion County.
Hope that helps.
Last edited by Mike Taylor; 06-25-2011 at 09:52 AM..
Homes are our shelters. Thinking of them as "investments" can really get one burned. Over decades, I could see believing that the home should increase in value, but only if one actually pays a mortgage for 20-30 years. Unfortunately, people have been conditioned to believe that homes should be costly, that it is OK to pay on them for 20, 30, or 40 years, that you should take out home equity lines of credit or loans every so often and dump thousands into the home, etc.. This is all smoke and mirrors from those groups who stand to benefit: Home improvement shops, lending institutions, Nat'l. Association of Realtors, home improvement companies, etc..
Unless you plan on staying in a home for a long time, especially given the current state of the global economy, going into a home thinking of it as an investment, where you might have to move in five to ten years, is extremely risky. There are so many issues to analyze, it makes sense to never, ever think of a home as an investment. Think of it as shelter, which is what it is. Homes allow humans to survive Indiana's brutal winter environment.
If one absolutely must measure from an investment stand point, how can you go wrong with Carmel or Zionsville? Having been thinking about moving to Hamilton County, I have seen some homes in Carmel going for about $135K, older homes which is what I like (all brick or stone) that have been totally remodeled inside, 1,700+ sq. ft. on half-acre or larger lots. Back when I purchased my home in 2005, a home like that in Carmel was going for around $160K, if not more. Right now, there are only a handful of similar homes in that price range. Some folks have similar homes, but are asking $10-$20K more, likely because they can't go any lower. This is exactly why one shouldn't think of a home as an investment. Go in with at least 10-15% down, and start attacking that mortgage with principle only payments. That way if you have to sell because you have to relocate, you can at least take a hit and move on. Otherwise, you are going to be out of luck and stuck like a lot of folks are now.
Very interesting stat posted but I would venture to say there is the "location" factor. I'll give two examples, when I bought my first house and the wife and I were looking, we did look up in Hamilton County and found a good neighborhood and found a house we liked, they wanted almost 250k for it. That was out of our budget so we continued looking and by happen stance found something similar on the South Side in Franklin Township. We got there and learned we could build the EXACT same house model with more land for 60k cheaper than hamilton county. It definitely was the better deal for us anyway as we had the same amenities as they had up north, same restaurants, same grocery stores but better highway access and a smaller school in Franklin Central as compared to the 4000k students in Carmel HS.
Needless to say there's a difference when you say Indianapolis and Carmel or any suburb for that matter as people generally associate the city as being of lesser value. Sometimes it does have merit but a lot of times it doesn't. It just depends on the area of the city you are looking at. Realtors sell that idea to make more commission. Second example, I'm a regioner born and bred. If it weren't for my kids being in Indy, I would be back in Lake County , but you can buy a house in Miller Beach (Far east side Gary) for roughly 400k, of course price goes up the closer you get to lake michigan. You can buy the same similar house with similar amenities 3 blocks over in Porter County in Odgen Dunes or Beverly Shores and the price can almost double even though the lake can get a little shallow over there. The huge price differential is of course, MB is Gary and while in a lot of parts of Gary, that price differential will and should hold true based off of location, Miller Beach isn't one of those areas as a highly desirable area in NWI. Hope that makes some type of sense.
It used to be said that the same house in Center Grove on the southside was $10,000 more than the same house across the street in another school district. It was totally due to schools. It is a complex area.
The areas of Indianapolis that offer schools comparable to the suburbs and where the values of homes remain strong tend to be historic districts. The ones closest to downtown meeting this description are Lockerbie Square, Chatham Arch, St. Joseph’s, the Old Northside, and Herron-Morton Place. Fall Creek Place is not historic, but I hear that it’s doing well.
It is definitely viable to live downtown with children. There are around 15 on our block alone. Schools are always a big concern for parents. There are great public, charter, and private school options. For public schools, parents tend to choose one of the magnet programs (http://www.magnet.ips.k12.in.us/file...ochure_Web.pdf). I know people choosing the CFI, Montessori and Reggio Emilia programs who are very happy with their schools (not to say that the other magnets aren’t great, those are just the ones I know through personal connections). For charter schools, I also know families who are very happy with the Project School (k-8) The Project School - Indianapolis, and Herron High School (•*HERRON HIGH SCHOOL*•). For private schools, I know families who are very happy with the Oaks Academy (The Oaks Academy :: Indianapolis, Indiana) and St. Richards (St. Richard's School). Again, not saying that ones I haven’t named aren’t good, these are just personal experiences.
In my opinion, the biggest downsides are having to trek out to the ‘burbs for Target and Trader Joe runs, and guarding against petty crime (take valuables out of the car, keep your garage door down, lock doors at home). Crime does exist. We’ve had bikes and patio furniture stolen, but you learn not to be an easy target (and since we’ve locked down the patio furniture and religiously keep the garage door down, we’ve not had any more theft).
The upsides are bigger though. I ride my bike on the Cultural Trail to work, dropping a kid off at school along the way. Ten minutes later, I’m at work. On the way home, I can stop by the grocery store or a sandwich shop for dinner. In nice weather, we walk to Mass Ave for dinner, coffee, ice cream, chocolate, or wine. Sometimes the kids talk us into the Mass Ave Toy Shop. In the winter, we tend to frequent the museums. I can’t imagine living here and not being downtown.
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, but you can buy a house in Miller Beach (Far east side Gary) for roughly 400k, of course price goes up the closer you get to lake michigan. You can buy the same similar house with similar amenities 3 blocks over in Porter County in Odgen Dunes or Beverly Shores and the price can almost double even though the lake can get a little shallow over there. The huge price differential is of course, MB is Gary and while in a lot of parts of Gary, that price differential will and should hold true based off of location, Miller Beach isn't one of those areas as a highly desirable area in NWI. Hope that makes some type of sense.
