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In my younger days I realized that whereas I did have hobbies and various interests whose support cost money, I wasn’t committed to them and didn’t have the skill/experience to excel in them. I enjoyed travel, for example, but felt uncomfortable traveling alone. The solution was to devote myself to work and to saving money. Even though my investment record is mediocre at best, I’ve accumulated enough to liberate myself from paycheck-to-paycheck trepidation. Beholding the world now, I’m of an age where “having fun” makes more sense. Later in life, one realizes what one really wishes, and is better equipped to enjoy leisure. For this reason it makes sense to front-load one’s working/earning/saving early in life, gradually scaling back on savings-fanaticism as one gets older. To me, retirement is not necessarily quitting one’s job and parking oneself in a rocking-chair sipping beer, or buying a yacht to sail around the world, but the accumulation of sufficient wherewithal that work itself becomes a sort of leisure, and daily fluctuations in prices and markets are more topics of entertainment and lighthearted banter, than nail-biting angst.
They say that the richer man is the man that lived a full life of adventure and experiences. I know several people like this--and they seem the happiest (although, I don't know for sure if they really are happy--but they SEEM to be). They are able not to worry about the future and basically kicked the worry habit. They believe that if no one gets out of this life alive, why live a life of security? They say that, sure, the safe man may be able to live secure in the corner somewhere and take cruise trips once in a while, but what a way to live! After all, you can't take your money with you.
I know this is the age old philosophical question about the true meaning of life...but I have to admit it's very attractive to someone like me that has been saving for retirement (I'm 32). Although I do have the funds to travel and do things of "adventure", what I lack is time. I can't seem to buy time, but I can always make more money. One way I can possibly alleviate this issue is by starting my own business again....but when I did this in my 20s, I had practically ZERO time off and it's a lot of hard work. I would work harder than I would work now at my current job. I don't even have a family, so I can't just imagine how it is with kids. Perhaps I need to find another job that would give me higher job satisfaction, but the current one pays me so well and offers a retirement package that is out of this world--the issue is I can't retire until I'm in my early 60s if I want to have millions in the bank. But, will I be healthy then? Will the stock market still average 7-10% in return? My family suffers from heart disease, what's my outlook?
Any wise men (and women) have advice for me? As CS Lewis once said, I just "feel like I was made for another world."
If you are really making great money, you should be able to save 60% to 70% of your income and be financially free within 10 years. It sounds like you already have a nice retirement nest egg, so I'm betting you could probably do it in less than 10.
This is a good blog piece that touches on the topic:
My advice is to pick one thing and spend your money on that. If it is traveling, then eat most meals at home, don't go out every single weekend, both Friday and Sat night and drop $30-$100 just because one can. Don't shop at the most costly stores for clothing and household goods. Don't worry about constantly changing the home and dropping thousands at Home Depot or Lowes every year.
I live pretty frugally compared to my income, so I've been able to save a lot for retirement AND travel, which for me is the only thing worth spending a lot of money on besides a place to live. And even there I live in a much smaller house than I could afford, though it's a very nice one. I once calculated how much money I've saved compared to my SIL by doing my own housework and lawn care and not getting manicures and pedicures, not to mention Coach handbags and literally dozens of pairs of shoes, and I'm sure it's paid for several of my overseas trips.
A better question is will you be alive then? I'm fairly certain that Steve Jobs thought he'd be alive at age 65; he only made it to 56. No one – not even billionaires – is promised tomorrow, so if you have enough money and time to take a year or two off to sow your wild oats/live life as if you were dying/stop and smell the roses/satisfy your wanderlust/live in the moment/work on your bucket list/etc., I say go for it.
When do you think this opportunity will present itself again? At 65, if you're still alive ?
Just remember when you're old and grey you may be a homeless person with many life adventures under your belt. Is that a good thing or bad thing?
For most people, this is a VERY bad thing. I have a friend in his late 50s who lived in Europe for a few years, etc. He switched jobs a lot. Only put a minimal amount in retirement savings. He now expects to work until 70 and be totally dependent on Social Security (still insists he can't save anything for retirement and/or that it's not worth the effort because it's 'too late'). He is now unemployed and looking for work at 58. He may not be able to work full time until age 70 even if he wants to.
I can guarantee you...he NEVER says to me "Oh well, I lived my life for the present and I accept that my current situation is just the price you pay for that". Heck no. He blames any and every outside force while making himself the victim...and that's what most broke people do.
I also don't agree with the premise that the sensible thing to do is "what you want to do". If I want to eat junk food all the time, does that make it sensible? If I want to rack up lots of debt to buy stuff I can't afford, is that sensible? I don't think so.
Too many people are doing exactly what they want to do and the result is a majority overweight/obese population who are living payday to payday and/or are going further in debt....and yet they don't make the connection between the poor choices they make and the stress that results from them.
Last edited by mysticaltyger; 04-06-2013 at 04:12 AM..
A better question is will you be alive then? I'm fairly certain that Steve Jobs thought he'd be alive at age 65; he only made it to 56. No one – not even billionaires – is promised tomorrow, so if you have enough money and time to take a year or two off to sow your wild oats/live life as if you were dying/stop and smell the roses/satisfy your wanderlust/live in the moment/work on your bucket list/etc., I say go for it.
When do you think this opportunity will present itself again? At 65, if you're still alive ?
Answer: Most likely, yes.
Steve Jobs is the exception that proves the rule. People are living longer, especially those who don't smoke, use drugs, eat crap, or drink to excess. I know, that's a minority of people who fit all of those, but people are still living longer despite all of that. 65 is just not that old any more.
If you want a life full of adventure, then don't save for retirement. Living on next to nothing in your 80s and 90s would be really adventurous. It would be one adventure after another.
Actually, the sh*t usually hits the fan long before people hit their 80s. It usually hits in their 50s when they lose their decent paying jobs and can only find jobs with crappy pay after that point.
I had relatives who, from day one of their marriage, saved 10% of his earnings. Wife never worked. He was an engineer w/GM, so his earnings were always well above average. He was no great investment whiz, paid way too much in taxes during his working years, bailed out his kids a couple of times, paid for two college educations, and still ended up at age 70 with about $2 mill., plus a great GM pension, SS, etc. They never lived luxuriously, but were always comfortable.
I have never been able to understand people who have no money beyond their current paycheck. I never lived that way - ever. It is a very a hard world without money. Money should not be a god, but at the same time money needs to be respected. It buys freedom, choices, options, peace of mind. Generally.
^^^This^^^^
Not everyone earns an engineer's salary....but most people can put away 10% in a retirement account without a significant change in lifestyle. That's partly because after the tax benefit is factored in, it's only 8% of what you're currently making (and even less than that for some). So you blow a little less money on stuff that doesn't really matter and you live fine. That 10% savings rate adds up to a lot over a working lifetime with compounding.
I practically have to BEG my sister to put away money for retirement. She has always earned more than me but she is in her mid 40s and probably doesn't even have 10K put away for retirement. Yet she saved 35K in cash and lived in South America for 9 months. Nothing wrong with that...but when you earn in the high 5 figures like she does, you can put 5K or 10K away without it hurting your lifestyle that much. She says she thinks our economy will collapse by the time she reaches retirement age. She may very well be right (unfortunately). But putting a few grand away for retirement is a minimal sacrifice that will help a lot in old age if done consistently.
I think I FINALLY convinced her to put 2K in her IRA this year. With the tax benefit, her accountant told her it will only be ~ $1100 out of pocket....but it was like pulling teeth for me to even get her to put that much away.
Last edited by mysticaltyger; 04-06-2013 at 04:14 AM..
In my younger days I realized that whereas I did have hobbies and various interests whose support cost money, I wasn’t committed to them and didn’t have the skill/experience to excel in them. I enjoyed travel, for example, but felt uncomfortable traveling alone. The solution was to devote myself to work and to saving money. Even though my investment record is mediocre at best, I’ve accumulated enough to liberate myself from paycheck-to-paycheck trepidation. Beholding the world now, I’m of an age where “having fun” makes more sense. Later in life, one realizes what one really wishes, and is better equipped to enjoy leisure. For this reason it makes sense to front-load one’s working/earning/saving early in life, gradually scaling back on savings-fanaticism as one gets older. To me, retirement is not necessarily quitting one’s job and parking oneself in a rocking-chair sipping beer, or buying a yacht to sail around the world, but the accumulation of sufficient wherewithal that work itself becomes a sort of leisure, and daily fluctuations in prices and markets are more topics of entertainment and lighthearted banter, than nail-biting angst.
I did something similar. While it was a tough trade off...now that I'm in my early 40s, I could scale back in my savings and probably still be ok for retirement as long as I don't tap into the retirement account until my 50s or 60s. Knowing that definitely takes some of the pressure off. I did do some traveling in my 20s and 30s, which was great. But to do it, I lived in a rented room until age 35. Got sick of that so I went out and gt my own place. After I got my own apartment, I have traveled less....but since I've gotten some of that travel bug out of my system, I'm ok with that.
One of the things I learned from travel is that the daily grind is the same all over the world. Sure, living in a country with a decent standard of living is quite helpful...but at the end of the day, it's still a grind, especially when you have to work (as opposed to choosing to work). Having money can free you up from that grind.
For most people, this is a VERY bad thing. I have a friend in his late 50s who lived in Europe for a few years, etc. He switched jobs a lot. Only put a minimal amount in retirement savings. He now expects to work until 70 and be totally dependent on Social Security (still insists he can't save anything for retirement and/or that it's not worth the effort because it's 'too late'). He is now unemployed and looking for work at 58. He may not be able to work full time until age 70 even if he wants to.
I can guarantee you...he NEVER says to me "Oh well, I lived my life for the present and I accept that my current situation is just the price you pay for that". Heck no. He blames any and every outside force while making himself the victim...and that's what most broke people do.
I also don't agree with the premise that the sensible thing to do is "what you want to do". If I want to eat junk food all the time, does that make it sensible? If I want to rack up lots of debt to buy stuff I can't afford, is that sensible? I don't think so.
Too many people are doing exactly what they want to do and the result is a majority overweight/obese population who are living payday to payday and/or are going further in debt....and yet they don't make the connection between the poor choices they make and the stress that results from them.
You make some very valid points with how I wrote my post.
This is the main point I was trying to get across. For example, if you are working in an extremely stressful environment and if your health is being adversely affected by your work place and if your are having mental health issues, ie depression, anxiety and even under medical care you are not able to reduce these issues then what should you do? Stay in a work environment that may end up killing you through a heart attack, stroke or suicide? That is not a good quality of life.
Yes, I would think it is better to leave a place of work and get yourself a different job that is more suitable so you can have a better life/work balance and be happier in life. But there is also nothing wrong with taking a few months or even a year off of work and travel and have those adventures. If you make that a life long choice as the person you wrote about, yes that is sad and kind of stupid IMO.
You are right, too many people are making poor choices with overeating, going into debt etc. That is in a way their choice, however, there are many outside influences that impacts on those choices too. Businesses, marketing of products, the subliminal messages can all effect the choices people make in life. But that is really a topic for another thread.
Finally, thank you for correcting my spelling mistake AND highlighting the mistake in the colour red, Aussies spell it colour instead of color- so is that wrong too?. IMO that indicates to me of your narrow mindedness and pettiness. Relax, you don't need to have everything "correct" all the time!
Have a great day. And to the original poster I hope you find and do what makes you happy!
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