Did islam spread by force, swords or guns?

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by yasureoktoo

When the Apostle heard about Abu Sufyan coming from Syria, he summoned the Muslims and said, “This is the Quraish caravan containing their property. Go out to attack it, perhaps Allah will give it as a prey.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 428) In this case the Meccans were returning to Mecca from a business trip to Syria

This is where the Battle of Badr got it's begining.

As I stated earlier on, there were no caravans at Badr. Therefore, Battle of Badr had nothing to do with Muslims attacking the caravans or the Meccans defending the caravans.

Further, the Battle of Badr wasn't between those travelling to Mecca and Muslims from Madina but between those 1000 who had come up 300 miles from Mecca towards Madina and Muslims from Madina.

As for a separate question of caravans, please keep in mind that when Muslims were forced to flee from Mecca, leaving their belongings there, Meccans had broken into their homes and looted all their belongings. It was those belongings that the Meccans had taken to Syria to sell them. Muslims would have been in their right to attack the Meccan caravans. But in case of Battle of Badr, it wasn't a case of Muslims attacking the caravans or the Meccans defending the caravans. There were no caravans anywhere near the battle ground at Badr.

Even if you assume that the Battle of Badr was over the caravans, what was the second battle at Uhad on the outskirts of Madina about? Over caravans?

If you read 9:13 (the Surah 9 you wanted to talk about), it clearly says that the Muslims were commanded to fight those who had attacked them "first".

[9.13] What! Will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and aimed at the expulsion of the messenger, and they attacked you first; do you fear them? But Allah is most deserving that you should fear Him, if you are believers.
أَلَا تُقَـتِلُونَ قَوْمًا نَّكَثُوٓا۟ أَيْمَـنَهُمْ وَهَمُّوا۟ بِإِخْرَاجِ ٱلرَّسُولِ وَهُم بَدَءُوكُمْ أَوَّلَ مَرَّةٍ أَتَخْشَوْنَهُمْ فَٱللَّـهُ أَحَقُّ أَن تَخْشَوْهُ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِينَ

Who attacked first?

A Muslim must not attack first a peaceful person of any religion or of no religion. Muslims haven't been given any authority by God through the Qur'an to attack anyone on the sole basis of that person not being a Muslim.

[yasureoktoo]

Where did you ever learn about the Battle of Badr, clearly not from Islamic text.
Probably from some whitewashed 2020 book, rewriting the original.
There are only a couple places on planet earth where this is documented,
and I suggest you read from Ishaq and Taburi before you make these statements.
And BTW, it is not in the Qur'an, only mentioned by name, but nothing about it.

Abu Sufyan ran caravans, as did Muhammed working for his wife Khadijjia.
He was also one of the first to convert to save his head when the Muslims attacked Mecca.

When Muhammed was tossed out of Mecca, and sought refuge with the Jews of Yathrub,
He raided Meccan caravans.
This is heavily documented.

Badr was fought when the Meccans banded together to save their property that Muhammed was robbing.
Badr is refferred to as " the turning point of Islam".
Are you really a Muslim.

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by yasureoktoo

Where did you ever learn about the Battle of Badr, clearly not from Islamic text.

Should I learn about Islam from a non-muslim?
Should I learn about the early history of Islam from the people who were not there at the time?

You have been doing just that judging by your comments here.

The text below is from the REAL Islamic text:

[Qur'an 3.123] And Allah did certainly assist you at Badr when you were weak; be conscious of Allah then, that you may give thanks.
وَلَقَدْ نَصَرَكُمُ ٱللَّهُ بِبَدْرٍ وَأَنتُمْ أَذِلَّةٌ ۖ فَٱتَّقُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ

At Badr, Muslims were weak (only 313 against 1000). !000 came from Mecca 300 miles away well prepared to attack Muslims. Isn't this REAL Islamic text you are ignoring.

[3.124] When you said to the believers: Does it not suffice you that your Lord should assist you with three thousand of the angels sent down?
[3.125] Yea! If you remain patient and are on your guard, and they come upon you in a headlong manner, your Lord will assist you with five thousand of the havoc-making angels.

Why are you blind to this REAL Islamic text that tells you that the Muslims already knew their weakness and being outnumbered by the Meccans about to attack them at Badr. They knew there was going to be a battle with a well prepared Meccan army. They were waiting to be attacked there. But also knew that God was going to help the Muslims with the angels at the battlefield. All that Muslims had to do was be patient and be on their guard when they are attacked (they come upon you in headlong manner). No mention of caravans here but only the Meccans coming upon Muslims to attack them. Can you deny this REAL Islamic text?

Originally Posted by yasureoktoo

Probably from some whitewashed 2020 book, rewriting the original.

You will believe anything from any 2020 whitewashed book as long as it is against Muhammad.

Originally Posted by yasureoktoo

There are only a couple places on planet earth where this is documented,
and I suggest you read from Ishaq and Taburi before you make these statements.

No. You need to read and understand the REAL Islamic text (THE QUR'AN) about Badr before you make any statements. Keep in mind that Ishaq and Taburi (Tabari) were not there at Badr. They were not even born yet. You want to believe their account of Battle of Badr?

Originally Posted by yasureoktoo

And BTW, it is not in the Qur'an, only mentioned by name, but nothing about it.

Read and try to understand the 3 verses from the Qur'an quoted above. Anything contradicting them is untrue.

Originally Posted by yasureoktoo

Abu Sufyan ran caravans, as did Muhammed working for his wife Khadijjia.
He was also one of the first to convert to save his head when the Muslims attacked Mecca.

The latter comment just goes to show your ignorance about the history of Islam and when Abu Sufyan had accepted Islam.

Abu Sufyan was Meccan Quraish leader who had gone to Madina with a massive army to attack Muslims (Battle of Trench). He had come back to Mecca utterly defeated.

He wasn't one of the first to convert but one of the last one to convert when Muslims came back home to Mecca after nearly 10 years in exile. Muslims did not ATTACK anyone in Mecca. They had just walked into Mecca peacefully, killing nobody. If you don't want to believe me, given the name of just one person who was killed in Mecca by those Muslims.
I suggest you don't make statements in ignorance about Islam and Muslims.

Originally Posted by yasureoktoo

When Muhammed was tossed out of Mecca, and sought refuge with the Jews of Yathrub,
He raided Meccan caravans.
This is heavily documented.

This is another statement of yours in ignorance. Who had "tossed" Muhammad out of Mecca, his home?
Who had taken all the belongings from the homes of Muslims in Mecca after forcing them to flee from there to save their lives?
Who was taking belongings of Muslims in their caravans to sell them in Syria?

Originally Posted by yasureoktoo

Badr was fought when the Meccans banded together to save their property that Muhammed was robbing.

It was Muslims' property; not Meccan property that Meccans were selling in Syria after expelling Muslims from Mecca.

Originally Posted by yasureoktoo

Badr is refferred to as " the turning point of Islam".
Are you really a Muslim.

I can see you must be an ignorant muslim that you won't believe the Qur'an but history books written by those who were not even born at the time. LOL!

[yasureoktoo]

Originally Posted by Khalif

S

It was Muslims' property; not Meccan property that Meccans were selling in Syria after expelling Muslims from Mecca.

I can see you must be an ignorant muslim that you won't believe the Qur'an but history books written by those who were not even born at the time. LOL!

When the Apostle heard about Abu Sufyan coming from Syria, he summoned the Muslims and said, “This is the Quraish caravan containing their property. Go out to attack it, perhaps Allah will give it as a prey.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 428)


Also Abu Sufyan converted to Islam after the conquest of Mecca.

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by yasureoktoo

When the Apostle heard about Abu Sufyan coming from Syria, he summoned the Muslims and said, “This is the Quraish caravan containing their property. Go out to attack it, perhaps Allah will give it as a prey.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 428)

Ibn Ishaq was born 83 years AFTER the battle of Badr. What did he know about the battle 83 years before his birth?

Did this battle occur over caravans or because 1000 came from Mecca, 300 miles away, to attack 313 Muslims?

Keep in mind that there were no Quraish caravans in Badr.

Can't you think that 313 Muslims after defeating 1000 went home without attacking any caravan?

Originally Posted by yasureoktoo

Also Abu Sufyan converted to Islam after the conquest of Mecca.

Wrong again.

Abu Sufyan converted to Islam BEFORE the Muslims walked into Mecca.

[yasureoktoo]

Originally Posted by Khalif

Ibn Ishaq was born 83 years AFTER the battle of Badr. What did he know about the battle 83 years before his birth?

Did this battle occur over caravans or because 1000 came from Mecca, 300 miles away, to attack 313 Muslims?

Keep in mind that there were no Quraish caravans in Badr.

Can't you think that 313 Muslims after defeating 1000 went home without attacking any caravan?

Wrong again.

Abu Sufyan converted to Islam BEFORE the Muslims walked into Mecca.

Ishaq is the earliest source in all of Islamic text,

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by yasureoktoo

Ishaq is the earliest source in all of Islamic text,

The earliest source of Islamic text is The Qur'an.
The Qur'an was first revealed, and written down (Surah 96:1-5), about 95 years before the birth of Ishaq.
Here is that text in Arabic:

ٱقْرَأْ بِٱسْمِ رَبِّكَ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَ
خَلَقَ ٱلْإِنسَٰنَ مِنْ عَلَقٍ
ٱقْرَأْ وَرَبُّكَ ٱلْأَكْرَمُ
ٱلَّذِى عَلَّمَ بِٱلْقَلَمِ
عَلَّمَ ٱلْإِنسَٰنَ مَا لَمْ يَعْلَمْ

Therefore, the text of Ishaq was a much later text than the very first Islamic text of The Qur'an.

[Ethan1989]

No I don't think that Islam is spread by any force sword or guns. The basic meaning of Islam is peace. Islam is the only religion which gives right to you and have rights of everybody and everything. ISLAM tells you how to walk on a path in other words Islam is perfect religion for Mankind.