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Like most Muslims I do not recognize any living being as being a Muslim leader. any person who blindly follows a religious "Leader" is a fool and most if not all Religious leaders of all religions are at best charlatans. we individually follow Allaah(swt) and only Allaah(swt) with no intermediaries
I see only personal responsibility and each of us alone, carries the responsibility for our actions and inaction. Religious leaders are to only serve as sources of opinion, not as makers of policy or beliefs.
Like most Muslims I do not recognize any living being as being a Muslim leader. any person who blindly follows a religious "Leader" is a fool and most if not all Religious leaders of all religions are at best charlatans. we individually follow Allaah(swt) and only Allaah(swt) with no intermediaries
I see only personal responsibility and each of us alone, carries the responsibility for our actions and inaction. Religious leaders are to only serve as sources of opinion, not as makers of policy or beliefs.
Woodrow,
We are not addressing your brand of islam, we are addressing the written doctrine of Islam, not some groups that hijacked the religion into something else altogether.
We are discussing the writings of muhammed and the writings attributed to him, not some 21st century version that nobody in the mid-east reads anyway.
We are not addressing your brand of islam, we are addressing the written doctrine of Islam, not some groups that hijacked the religion into something else altogether.
We are discussing the writings of muhammed and the writings attributed to him, not some 21st century version that nobody in the mid-east reads anyway.
I consider myself somewhat acquainted with Islam as seen in the Mideast as I fought it for nearly 65 years of my life before discovering I was in error. It was only after accepting Islam that I found Islam and the Qur'an to be a message of Peace.
What you are calling the 21st Century version is what you will find most Muslims following. It is also what I saw among the average person in Morocco, Algeria, Saudi, Iraq, Syria, Egypt and what I still see among Iraqi and Palestinian Refugees that I know.
No Muslim attributes any writings to Muhammad(saws) we do not believe he was capable of writing. He dictated back what was spoken to Him.
The radicals such as ISIS, are the ones attempting to high-Jack Islam.
Ibrahim ibn Awwad ibn Ibrahim ibn Ali ibn Muhammad al-Badri al-Samarrai (aka: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi) if he has one iota of Islamic knowledge would know he can not be a Caliph.
Do you actually read those posts ,or just post them.
These are not Christian, they are tribal religions, ingrained with superstition.
They are following ordained Pentecostal Pastors. They are following their interpretation of Biblical scripture and using it to justify ancient practices.
You will find similar "exorcisms" taking place here in the US they are not following "Tribal Tradition" they are following what they believe Christianity teaches
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Mom kills two children during attempted exorcism in Maryland (video)
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Ben Axelson | baxelson@syracuse.com By Ben Axelson | baxelson@syracuse.com
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on January 19, 2014 at 11:07 AM, updated January 19, 2014 at 11:40 AM
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A Maryland woman stabbed two of her children to death, and left her other two children injured during an exorcism attempt in Germantown.
CNN reported Zakieya L. Avery, 28, has been charged with two counts of first degree murder and two counts of attempted first degree murder. She was uninjured.
Another woman Monifa Denise Sanford, 21, living in the same Germantown residence was hospitalized after the incident and charged in the deaths. USA Today reports both women are being held without bond.
Norell Harris, 1, and his sister, Zyana Harris, 2 suffered fatal stab wounds while their older siblings, Taniya Harris, 5 and Martello Harris, 8, were hospitalized, according to the Montgomery County Police. Police found the children after a neighbor called 911 and reported a car with a door left open and a knife next to it.
One witness reported the two women tried to flee out of the back door of the house when police charged in the front entrance.
Bishop David Hemphill holds a Bible as he talks to a reporter about an autistic 8-year-old boy, who died while being restrained during a prayer service at Faith Temple Church of the Apostolic Faith, Sunday, Aug. 24, 2003, outside his home in Milwaukee. Police have not released the boy's name, but Hemphill identified him as Torrance Cantrell. AP
An autistic 8-year-old boy died while wrapped in sheets during a prayer service held to exorcise the evil spirits that church members blamed for his condition.
The minister who performed the service was arrested in connection with the death, which occurred Friday night at a church in a run-down strip mall.
The mother had been taking her son to Faith Temple Church of the Apostolic Faith three times a week for the last three weeks in hopes of curing his autism, said Bishop David Hemphill Sr.
It was after more than an hour of prayer that a parishioner noticed the boy was no longer moving and called emergency workers, Hemphill said. The boy's grandmother said force was used, an allegation disputed by church members.
"We were asking God to take this spirit that was tormenting this little boy to death," Hemphill said. "We were praying that hard, but not to kill."
NANTUCKET — The woman accused of killing her 3-year-old daughter earlier this week believed God had instructed her to stick a rose in the young girl's throat to ward off the devil, according to documents filed in Nantucket District Court.
Dora Alicia Tejada Pleitez, 26, of 13B Pine Tree Road was held without bail pending a mental competency hearing following her arraignment Tuesday on a murder charge. She was taken off the island Tuesday for the evaluation and is scheduled to appear in Nantucket District Court on Monday for a pretrial hearing.
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Full-Text: Read the full police report on Dora Alicia Tejada Pleitez's arrest
The police were called to the family's home at about 12:40 p.m. Monday, according to a six-page narrative describing police interviews in the investigation.
Officers found Pleitez's daughter, Nicole Garcia, lying on a table inside the home and attempted to resuscitate her until paramedics arrived.
The girl was taken to Nantucket Cottage Hospital, where she was pronounced dead at about 1:18 p.m.
During an interview shortly after Garcia's death, Pleitez, who is originally from El Salvador, began singing and praying, telling investigators through a Spanish interpreter that the Holy Spirit could speak through her.
Pleitez told the police that she had been seated on a couch in the living room of the Pine Tree Road home earlier in the day with her daughter and son.
My point is that you use the term "WE", when the reality is it is "you."
Every aspect of Islam is following, and being submissive to someone else.
Bad habit. by "We" I mean every Muslim I have personal contact with. but it is true, I can not speak for them only reflecting what I hear from them.
My personal path has taken a few twists. I began following the Sufi path, which I still love, but rject the practice of venerating Saints. I slowly grew into Sunni and the Hanafi Madhab.
My wife began her path as an Ahmadiyyah and grew into Sunni but has yet to settle on any Madhab.
Yes Islam is about following. but not the following of any Human leader. We definitely are forbidden to be submissive to any Human.
No one is responsible for what we believe or don't believe except our self.
I am not so sure that is true. I think we are all responsible for it and "idea space" is a shared realm of real estate, not an individual one.
For example it is morally incumbent upon us, I feel, to educate our young. And that education directly affects what, and how, they believe. I, for example, would like to see the "Fallacies" taught to children much earlier than they are (even when they are, often they are not) to give our children early on the tools to not only recognize the common philosophical fallacies..... but to avoid them.
It would be like you said "No one is responsible for what diseases we contract except ourselves" but clearly we inoculate children to prevent them contracting certain ones later in life. Similarly I think we are morally compelled to mentally inoculate our children to protect them from infection by harmful memes. And yet I would see religion and god belief as being part of that package.
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
It is very delusional for a person to think he/she can change another person's beliefs by "Proving" they are wrong.
Why? It happens all the times. Minds are changed daily on many issues. And more often than not those minds are changed by other minds. That is why I would say I worship "Human discourse" if I could be said to worship anything at all. Because it is through human discourse, and not over indulgence in one single text written in a time of much relative ignorance, that we grow, learn, and test our beliefs and propositions against modernity and reality.
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
I accepted because I became convinced that Allaah(swt) exists and then I found Islam
And this is where some would start to use the word the thread is actually about: "Delusion". Because you appear to be making this claim without ever, in 10000 posts, making even the smallest attempt to substantiate it.
When people start to declare a position loudly, and then fail to offer a single shred of substantiation to support it with a silence that is just as loud, it is then people fall back on terms like "deluded". Because essentially human discourse has broken down.... and it was not broken by them. It is broken by you and your cohort.
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
to a Muslim massive conversions are tantamount to mass murder.
And you wonder why your moral system instills so much fear in others? You see simply changing someones mind as being comparable to murder. That is a horrific and truly scary moral equivalence that I can simply not fathom let alone share.
It is similar to the time (ongoing as it happens) that I decided to scientifically attempt to explore the realm of claims _some_ people were making to me about the Catholic Eucharist. I obtained a number of them and engaged with them in quite a number of experiments.
Some of the people who got wind of my actions wrote to me and compared my possession of these pieces of food stuff to literally abducting and abusing the children of my neighbors.
The see abduction and abuse of _children_ as being a moral equivalent of misuse of food.
And you see Missionaries as being comparable to murdering terrorists?
Wow. Simply. Just. Wow.
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
We definitely are forbidden to be submissive to any Human.
I would certainly be interested to witness you putting that into practice if you are ever arrested for a crime and brought before a court.
Yes Islam is about following. but not the following of any Human leader. We definitely are forbidden to be submissive to any Human.
I'm sorry, but muhammed himself hands the power to the leaders you are supposed to follow, "as though you were speaking to muhammed himself".
This is at the very core of the religion itself.
Submission, not to Allah as preached, but to your leader.
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