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Old 10-07-2008, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
789 posts, read 1,193,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
BONA FIDE wrote:

Is that an actual direct quote from the Quran? If it is that's very interesting because I wasn't aware that any ancient religion made that statement.
What I'm finding is:
Quote:
It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.
What is the shape of Earth's orbit around the Sun?
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Old 10-07-2008, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,810,504 times
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fancofu wrote:
Quote:
What is the shape of Earth's orbit around the Sun?
Of course it isn't a perfect circle, it's elliptical. Everything I've read in the Bible seems to suggest that people thought the stars were something that was attached to some sort of dome and the author of Genesis clearly had no understanding of how our solar system operates. That's why that particular verse supposedly from the Quran surprised me but it sounds like you're saying it's not quite accurate? I don't believe any ancient religions had accurate knowledge about astronomy. The people who lived in those days didn't have a clue that the earth was round and revolved around the sun and I guess you couldn't really expect them to. If any ancient religious text really gave an accurate description of the universe than it would have influenced the general population to believe that way but we know from history that even suggesting that the earth revolved around the sun could get you put in prison or worse and that was only a few hundred years ago.
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Old 10-07-2008, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
789 posts, read 1,193,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
fancofu wrote:

Of course it isn't a perfect circle, it's elliptical. Everything I've read in the Bible seems to suggest that people thought the stars were something that was attached to some sort of dome and the author of Genesis clearly had no understanding of how our solar system operates. That's why that particular verse supposedly from the Quran surprised me but it sounds like you're saying it's not quite accurate? I don't believe any ancient religions had accurate knowledge about astronomy. The people who lived in those days didn't have a clue that the earth was round and revolved around the sun and I guess you couldn't really expect them to. If any ancient religious text really gave an accurate description of the universe than it would have influenced the general population to believe that way but we know from history that even suggesting that the earth revolved around the sun could get you put in prison or worse and that was only a few hundred years ago.
I'm saying that it's close, but not accurate.

People that believed/alluded to a spherical Earth before the Qur'an was written: Pythagoras, Herodotus, Plato, Aristotle, Eratosthenes (estimated the circumference), Seleucus of Seleucia, Claudius Ptolemy, Aryabhata

People that believed/allude to heliocentrism before the Qur'an was written:
Yajnavalkya, Aristarchus of Samos, Seleucus of Seleucia, Varahamihira, Brahmagupta
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Old 10-08-2008, 07:30 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fancofu View Post
Therefor, the lowest point on earth is the Mariana Trench. You are limiting your results to the land on earth. The OP didn't make any restrictions. The OP's claim that the Dead Sea is "the lowest point on earth" is false. It's fine if you want to say the Dead Sea is the lowest point on land on earth. Just realize that you aren't talking about the same thing as me. I'm talking about the OP's claim, you are talking about something completely different.

The only way you can say that the Dead Sea is lower than the Mariana Trench is if you say that the Mariana Trench is not on Earth.

well , may be i'm wrong , may be i lied , may be i am biased to the quran

so , make your researches anout the lowst point in the earth , and show me your results

peace
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Old 10-08-2008, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,384,086 times
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Default At least it's slightly more plausible...

Kudos to BONA FIDE's clearly stated quotes (whether they are factual interpretations remains to be seen...) for at least showing us something that at least is more plausible and advanced than the Christian OT / NT dogmatists are parading out as evidence in other threads. Doesn't that make THAT BOOK more likely and hence more believable to those who need religion? But do I detect a mass swing in allegencies? NBL (not bl__dy likely!)

The "Lowest Point on Earth' argument proves, once again, my atheist pals, that no point is too small to be belabored endlessly in defense of oddball evidence.... Or that vague statements or translations from old books (or Nostradamus for that matter) can be interpreted in, shall we generously say, a number of different ways. Whatever shores up the "Argument of the Day".

Ain't it fask-in-atin"? But I gotta git back to work. Unless THAT's also a delusion.
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Old 10-08-2008, 10:52 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
fancofu wrote:

Of course it isn't a perfect circle, it's elliptical. Everything I've read in the Bible seems to suggest that people thought the stars were something that was attached to some sort of dome and the author of Genesis clearly had no understanding of how our solar system operates. That's why that particular verse supposedly from the Quran surprised me but it sounds like you're saying it's not quite accurate? I don't believe any ancient religions had accurate knowledge about astronomy. The people who lived in those days didn't have a clue that the earth was round and revolved around the sun and I guess you couldn't really expect them to. If any ancient religious text really gave an accurate description of the universe than it would have influenced the general population to believe that way but we know from history that even suggesting that the earth revolved around the sun could get you put in prison or worse and that was only a few hundred years ago.
there are many strange facts mentioned in quran , and modern science proofed it now

read this verse and tell me if you have any conclusions ?
You see the mountains and reckon them to be solid; but they go past like clouds-the handiwork of Allah Who gives to everything its solidity. He is aware of what you do. (Qur'an, 27:88)



another fact

As the strong belief of we Muslims is that when the sun will rise from
west rather than east, that time will be the biggest identity of The Day
Of Judgment.

this phenomena of the opposite movement called "Retrograde Motion" research about it by yourself becuase it happened with mars allready , i think
i don't think that any ancient relegion mentioned it either

And the strange thing most of our Shariah scholars mentioned that the
rise of the sun from the west occurs only once - on that day, the sun
will rise from the west, then again from the east, and continues until
Allah wishes and this is similar to what is happening to Mars, it
stops, then it changes its course of direction for a short period of
time then returns to way once it was.


Abu Hurayra(R.A.) narrated ... that the Messenger of Allah SWT said :" The day of the hour will not come until the sun rises from the west, if it rises and the people saw it they will all believe, when a time where nothing will be accepted anymore of believe the truth" [Abu Bukhari,Muslim]

i think this kind of knowldge can't to be one of these miracles which have not anything to do with science , Agnostic Soldier


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Old 09-13-2009, 04:44 PM
 
1 posts, read 820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
BONA FIDE wrote:

Is that an actual direct quote from the Quran? If it is that's very interesting because I wasn't aware that any ancient religion made that statement.
Yes,Sura Yaseen
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Old 09-13-2009, 05:01 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,735,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BONA FIDE View Post
Scientific Miracles In Quran
Strange how the quran has so much knowledge, yet the middle east is a intellectual vacuum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BONA FIDE View Post
The Big bang and Expansion of the Universe
"Haven't the disbelievers considered that the Heavens and the Earth were a joined entity and We separated them…”(Qur'an 21:30)
"And the Heaven we created with great strength and indeed We are its expander.”(51:47)
Many religions believe the sky and the earth where once one, and where pushed apart by someone (expanding) 51:47 talks about how muslim empires will continue to expand. These days, I see some people translating it into explosion, which funny enough, the big bang was not an explosion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BONA FIDE View Post
The Atmosphere/Ozone Layer
“And we made the sky a protective ceiling…” (21:32)
Where does it say anything about the atmosphere? It states that the sky is a solid roof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BONA FIDE View Post
Orbit of the Sun, Moon, and all other Celestial bodies
“…the sun and the moon; all heavenly bodies are swimming in an orbit (circular motion).”(21:33)
The greeks knew about this 1000 years before the quran was born, hey god must have talk too them too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BONA FIDE View Post
The Lowest Point on Earth
"The Byzantines have been defeated in the lowest of the Earth (Adnal-Ard)…”(30:2-3)
Are you serious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BONA FIDE View Post
The Uniqueness of the Fingerprint
“Does man think that We will not assemble his bones? Yes. We are able to proportion him to his fingertips.”(75:3-4)
Wow, I guess no one ever look at their own hand and compared it to someone else

Quote:
Originally Posted by BONA FIDE View Post
Iron as a Metalic Element Sent Down From Above
"...And We sent down iron in which there lies a great force and which has many uses for mankind..."(57:25)
http://www.55a.net/firas/english/
This was well known in most cultures, the iron in meteorites was value.

Why didn't you mention embryology, and the time that the sun set in a muddy pool?
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Old 09-14-2009, 04:52 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 21,087,682 times
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Talk about reading more into wording, just because it makes you feel better, ugh.
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:45 AM
 
39,235 posts, read 10,905,565 times
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This stuff is even more absurd than the claims of advanced scientific knowledge in the Bible.

Did we see the presentation of a future 'miracle' (which hasn't happened and wouldn't be 'scientific' even if it did) of the sun going west to east and that being somehow proved by 'retrograde motion'? That is absolutely nothing to do with the sun appearing to rise in the East. It is to do with the earth's orbit relating to the orbits of other planets, not the sun. It is in no way evidence of a prediction of anything and no evidence of anything in the Quran other than the whackiness of those who roll up here pasting chunks of text.

Nor is the reference to fingertips proof of some advanced knowledge that fingerprints were all different. In fact that is hardly a miracle in any case. i believe the chinese were using Fingerprint impressions as individual identifiers in the Sung dynasty.

But keep posting this stuff and we'll keep tearing it to pieces in the trust that anyone looking at it will decide that Islam is best left to those with parts of the brain that logic cannot reach.
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