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It's easy to recognize those who are highly susceptible to propaganda.
Yep.
Too bad they make up the vast majority of this forum and have chased away the people who don't easily fall for that propaganda.
I'm an independent, I've never voted along a party line. I don't watch MSNBC, Fox News or CNN. I don't read mainstream publications, watch local news or read MS local newspapers. I only listen to talk radio about local issues. I make sure I have all of my facts straight about an issue before stating my opinion.
Fact of the matter is the downward spiral in wages started because some greedy person decided they wanted to save a few bucks by bribing the government into allowing them to ship the jobs of Americans out of the country. In order for their competitors to still compete with them, they had no choice but to do the same. The people who lost those jobs or took a pay cut as a result of those outsourced jobs had no choice BUT to purchase the cheapest goods possible, as their income was no longer secure or increasing. The cycle repeats and continues.
My question is what solution do the aforementioned propagandist have to solve these problems facing America, other than the cheap and thoughtless "deal with it!" or "not my problem..." responses? Do we just roll over and die instead if the aforementioned problems can't be addressed?
My question is what solution do the aforementioned propagandist have to solve these problems facing America, other than the cheap and thoughtless "deal with it!" or "not my problem..." responses? Do we just roll over and die instead if the aforementioned problems can't be addressed?
I don't think they would care what happens unless it affects them.
My question is what solution do the aforementioned propagandist have to solve these problems facing America, other than the cheap and thoughtless "deal with it!" or "not my problem..." responses? Do we just roll over and die instead if the aforementioned problems can't be addressed?
And to think, I tried reaching out to you via direct message to offer insights from my own experience. This is the thanks I get?
Re-read my post #17 in this thread. That's a start.
I'm done with this thankless forum. Good luck to all of you. Perhaps one day you'll see the light and figure a way out of your self-perpetuated crisis.
I worked for a major manufacturer many years ago (mid to late 1970's) in both its plastic closure and glass bottle divisons.
When I worked in the closure (plastic bottle caps) divison the factory I worked at made about 3 million caps a day with an employee base of a bit over 300 people, both shop floor and management. Today that same plant produces about 21 million caps a day with an employee base of around 300, both shop floor and management.
If you understand what I just wrote you have the answer to the original question if you know anything about manufacturing. Nobody is working 16 hours and getting paid for 8 or anything else that was said upthread. In fact that company is considered one of the better places for pay and benefits in the area.
These are uncertain times for businesses from a policy standpoint. And this affects both small and large businesses. People cannot plan or anticipate what new regulations may be enacted in the future so they cannot plan or predict their future costs for maintaining their current employees much less new hires. Obamacare is a great example of this. Because of this uncertainty businesses aren't hiring and they are very reluctant to increase expenses now. Political parties and platforms aside, if Romney wins the elections, I think you may see more businesses hiring again because there is less fear of new regulations that could drastically change their cost structures.
Want to know the instant formula for solving this problem? You're not going to like it, but here it is.
1) Give illegal aliens 60 days to leave the country.
2) Tell employers that they have 60 days to rid their payrolls of illegal aliens.
3) On Day 61, round up all known illegal aliens, give them a nice comfortable ride to the airport, and fly them to the city nearest their home town. Fingerprint them and advise them that they are welcome to return to the United States if selected by lottery to immigrate legally. Otherwise, they will be thrown into prison.
4) With the sole exception of agriculture, impose a punitive fine on any company that hires an illegal. After multiple fines have been levied, throw the CEO in jail.
5) End welfare payments to long-term recipients on Day 120.
The immediate benefits?
A labor shortage in entry level jobs, thereby stimulating competition for jobs. Not only does this create a better job situation in the inner cities, but the law of supply and demand means that wages go up. Not to mention a lower demand for government services.
Want to know the instant formula for solving this problem? You're not going to like it, but here it is.
1) Give illegal aliens 60 days to leave the country.
2) Tell employers that they have 60 days to rid their payrolls of illegal aliens.
3) On Day 61, round up all known illegal aliens, give them a nice comfortable ride to the airport, and fly them to the city nearest their home town. Fingerprint them and advise them that they are welcome to return to the United States if selected by lottery to immigrate legally. Otherwise, they will be thrown into prison.
4) impose a punitive fine on any company that hires an illegal. After multiple fines have been levied, throw the CEO in jail.
Also, people seem to complain about companies making profits, but not spending part of those profits to hire more people. What about the fact that it seems that more people in general are saving more and spending less on a personal level? Maybe people should be spending more and pumping that money back into their local economy, rather than just hoarding their cash.
The people that are spending less are the ones making $10 an hour because they can't afford to buy many goods and services outside the basic necessities. If they were paid a decent wage then they could spend more which would simulate they economy and produce more jobs.
The only people hoarding cash are the ones at the very top. Tell them to either spend more or share the profits more equally so the employees have more to spend.
The people that are spending less are the ones making $10 an hour because they can't afford to buy many goods and services outside the basic necessities. If they were paid a decent wage then they could spend more which would simulate they economy and produce more jobs.
Retail sales have moved slightly past pre-recession levels. The population as a whole is spending more. Your average $10/hr worker still has to spend. More than likely, they will simply save less, not at all, or put it on the credit card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJacket
The only people hoarding cash are the ones at the very top. Tell them to either spend more or share the profits more equally so the employees have more to spend.
Tell that to people who know more than you... As I have mentioned before, everyone is uncertain of what is ahead. It is uncertainty that breeds conservative practices like nickle and diming labor, and spending less of your income. Companies slash margins to keep sales steady, at the expense of expenses within the business, such as labor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum
It's easy to recognize those who are highly susceptible to propaganda. They vociferously (senselessly) advocate against their own best interests. They think they'll be rich someday too, and so pretend to take on the attitudes of that class, when in reality it will never happen.
Think a rich person will give you some money? Try asking one, and see what happens.
Why, do they owe you something? Did you have anything to do with their personal success? Do you deserve a share of their wealth just because they have a pile of money and you don't? Bet communism sounds just fine and dandy to you
Risk vs reward. Many have accomplished great things in this nation, but failed many times along the way. You seem to believe just happens on it's own... Not if you don't try. What have you been doing to achieve that status of wealth that you loath so?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum
To paraphrase George Costanza: Do you have a job that qualifies you to be in the top 5% of wage earners? ($100k+) If not, do you own a house that is worth more than $350k, or live in a neighborhood of same? Do you have a business that Now pays you such an income? Do you even have any defined reasonable path or ANY CONCRETE IDEA how you would reasonably make such an income? Don't answer these questions here, but to yourselves.
If not, then you are fools, Tekkie, Hemlock140, Tober138 and andywire.
You believe employment was ever a path to riches? Hardly. With prudent investing and wise spending practices, you can achieve a status of "well off" perhaps. A little luck wouldn't hurt. I'd like to know how many whiners were selling off their stocks in 2008 when the obvious answer was to buy more.
Perhaps you are blaming your own personal shortcoming on the big bad boogy man bizness man... Yea right...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Weather
Fact of the matter is the downward spiral in wages started because some greedy person decided they wanted to save a few bucks by bribing the government into allowing them to ship the jobs of Americans out of the country. In order for their competitors to still compete with them, they had no choice but to do the same. The people who lost those jobs or took a pay cut as a result of those outsourced jobs had no choice BUT to purchase the cheapest goods possible, as their income was no longer secure or increasing. The cycle repeats and continues.
My question is what solution do the aforementioned propagandist have to solve these problems facing America, other than the cheap and thoughtless "deal with it!" or "not my problem..." responses? Do we just roll over and die instead if the aforementioned problems can't be addressed?
They did not have to bribe anyone. They can make holiday ornaments in China just as easy as here, for a fraction of the labor rate, and that's exactly what happened. There was nothing stopping companies from sending jobs over there in the first place. America does not "own" the jobs that companies create. The job of the government is to provide the infrastructure necessary to attract business. Outside of that, they are powerless to demand jobs be done here. Mind you, Americans didn't think twice about buying into the "made in China" trend. If anything, they were the greatest facilitators of all. Yes, the American consumer class dug their own grave, like it or not.
And what is the solution? Realizing there is a problem is the first step, but the easiest. When you have the answer, be sure to share it with those who can make the necessary changes. Please be advised... If you bring back every labor intensive manufacturing job from China, your consumer goods will rise considerably in price. Your purchasing power will ultimately decline. Remember, when Americans made everything we consumed, Americans couldn't afford to consume cheap appliances the way they do today. If you bought a pair of shoes, they had to last for quite a long time, because they were going to be the only pair you could afford to buy for quite a long time. Hence, we actually had places that would repair your shoes, along with all your other appliances. Today, we just throw them out.
Outside of that, they are powerless to demand jobs be done here. Mind you, Americans didn't think twice about buying into the "made in China" trend. If anything, they were the greatest facilitators of all. Yes, the American consumer class dug their own grave, like it or not.
I find it interesting that your posts are so definitive, as if your propositions are absolutes and that anything else is wrong.
First and foremost, it is YOUR OPINION what role a government is to play in a particular society. That is why we have elections every couple years. The people of this country as a whole decide what role they want government to take in their lives. Our opinions shift according to the overall economic and social climate, and they shift according to generational differences in worldview. So quit flaunting your views as absolutes. I attribute such audacity towards arrogance, ignorance, or both. Which is it for you?
Second, I pose the question: What came first, the chicken or the egg? Did companies start moving labor offshore to boost profits and consumers just followed along and purchased the products that were brought to market? Or was it the consumer that demanded that companies produce cheap, non-lasting goods for cheap prices and the companies followed through in order to meet their demands? The reason I ask you this is because it's not as if Chinese companies started penetrating our markets and selling their goods for cheaper, therefore forcing US firms to cut labor costs in order to compete. So who started this trend? I notice that the far right-wing fringe has a tendency to blame the consumers for demanding more for less while the left-wing fringe has a tendency to blame the firms for first cutting incomes and offshoring labor which resulted in consumers having no choice but to demand cheaper goods. So what was the driving factor from the beginning? I find that even though we like to point fingers at consumers and companies, nobody seems to know for certain who started the trend. Otherwise, if it were an absolute (as implied in your post), why is it still up for debate?
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