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This is a very contentious issue, and I'm well aware most Jewish religious sects view Messianics as Christian. But a Christian merely means a follower of Yeshua.
I'm a Messianic, born and raised Reform Jew, and theologically, I side more with Reform Judaism than Christianity.
Jesus and the Apostles were Jewish. They didn't stop being Jewish just because they followed Jesus' message.
I disagree with the "Jews for Jesus" thing, because it's Southern Baptist propaganda. But the Apostles were the first "Messianic Jews". And despite the opposition by the Jewish community, the Apostles did say most Jews would reject those Jews who follow Yeshua.
Regardless, one can still be culturally and ethnically Jewish, while following another religion. One born to a Jewish mother will always be Jewish, regardless of their beliefs.
Um no. You are no longer in the jewish religion (not even reform) in any way, you left judiasm behind and converted to christianity. You follow Jesus and the christian religion, and that is COMPLETLY a seperate religion from judiasm. YOUR apostles were converts as well, they formed a NEW, SEPERATE and DISTINCT relgion called christianity. One born to a jewish mother was born a jew, but you have left the jewish religion completly. I have nothing against christians (and you are one), and i wish you well in your new faith. "Messianic" and "Jews for Jesus" are the exact same thing, creations by baptists in order to get jews to convert (to christianity). That is what you have done. The ONLY thing you have different now than any other christian is that if you decided to become jewish you would not have to convert. Good luck to you, but dont call yourself Jewish, when what you believe in is completly outside of 5000 years of judiasm.
Jewish people do NOT belive in the idea of the trinity, jewish people say g-d is one.
Jewish people do NOT belive that g-d was a human or that any human was g-d.
Jewish people do NOT belive that g-d died.
Jewish people do NOT belive in a human sacrifice for sins (i.e. that jesus was a sacrifice)
Jewish people do NOT belive in "hell"
I don't think mormons are "real" christians, since they have an addtional book (of mormon), and Joseph Smith (I hope I have the name correct) as their prophet, but to be honest, I am neither a christian nor a mormon, so its none of my business. As long as they dont try to claim they are Jewish I have no problems.
I don't think "books" count as "religions". Catholics have extra and missing books from King James, are they not "real" Christians? King James was the one that changed the Catholic book in his version, so he and his book's followers are the one's that aren't "real" Christians, right? Some Christians don't even believe in any books as inerrent at all. would you say that Jesus founded Christianity? I wouldn't. a bunch of other people got involved along the way.
I also believe that if you follow a synagogue that disagrees with another synagogue you stop being a Jew. lol. This is hilarious. And is evidence that all of you are wrong in your believes as it regards to history and reality. Perhaps if you had better evidence, you would convince each other, I'll wait till then. Or you could present a perfect pedigree of how the religion that exists today is legitimate (historically "real") Judaism. Let all the Scottsmen speak. It's sure to be quite a show.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 07-26-2011 at 06:05 PM..
Um no. You are no longer in the jewish religion (not even reform) in any way, you left judiasm behind and converted to christianity. You follow Jesus and the christian religion, and that is COMPLETLY a seperate religion from judiasm. YOUR apostles were converts as well, they formed a NEW, SEPERATE and DISTINCT relgion called christianity. One born to a jewish mother was born a jew, but you have left the jewish religion completly. I have nothing against christians (and you are one), and i wish you well in your new faith. "Messianic" and "Jews for Jesus" are the exact same thing, creations by baptists in order to get jews to convert (to christianity). That is what you have done. The ONLY thing you have different now than any other christian is that if you decided to become jewish you would not have to convert. Good luck to you, but dont call yourself Jewish, when what you believe in is completly outside of 5000 years of judiasm.
Jewish people do NOT belive in the idea of the trinity, jewish people say g-d is one.
Jewish people do NOT belive that g-d was a human or that any human was g-d.
Jewish people do NOT belive that g-d died.
Jewish people do NOT belive in a human sacrifice for sins (i.e. that jesus was a sacrifice)
Jewish people do NOT belive in "hell"
I'll call myself whatever the heck I want to. Get off your high horse. And FYI, not all Messianics or Christians agree with the Trinity. I do not believe God "died" in the sense you're referring to, nor do I believe in Hell.
I'll call myself whatever the heck I want to. Get off your high horse. And FYI, not all Messianics or Christians agree with the Trinity. I do not believe God "died" in the sense you're referring to, nor do I believe in Hell.
Sorry, but indeed you are not in the jewish religion, no one in judiasm, be it reform, or conservative, orthodox, secular, or traditional, will agree that someone who belives in jesus as a "messiah" or "son of g-d" or "prophet" is jewish. Even israel would not let you become a citizen.
When you view g-d as a man, that is in opposition to 5000 years of jewish religion. When you say jesus was a sacrifice for sin, that is direct oppostion to g-d saying in torah that no man may be sacrificed for the sins of another. Additionally it violates g-d's rules about sacrifice, since the temple existed at the time, and sacrifices are allowed ONLY the temple.
If you claim that you dont belive in the trinity or three-in-one concept then you have at least TWO 'gods', the real g-d and your jesus idea who you claim is both a human and a supernatural being. If you claim that jesus IS g-d then you have to say that g-d "died" even for a short time. Jewish people say g-d is eternal and never dies.
I am not on any kind of "high horse" and like I said i wish you well in your new religion, but clearly your ideas, specifcally relating to your jesus, are in complete oppisition to the jewish religion.
I am quite sure that i am not the ONLY jewish person who has told you that you are not in anyway part of the Jewish religion.
Again, simply put, "messianic" or "jews for jesus" simply are baptist (christian) rooted movements, and not part of judism in anyway. Please do not call yourself what you no longer are.
Not to hijack the thread, but I was also wondering if the Jewish religion has any derogatory terms for atheists, or if Jewish culture has any rules against them. "no Gods before me" atheists don't even have you! how could they have any others before? plus, alot of my Jewish friends are atheists.
The derogatory word for an atheist is "apikorus" (from the Greek "epicurean") but that really means heretic, and some Orthodox would use it for any Jew who is not Orthodox.
There is some debate about whether BELIEFS are required by Jewish law. Some say the Law only regulates action. There are statements in the Talmud that anyone who does not believe in a given doctrine "has no place in the world to come" but its not universally agreed that represents a legal opinion, or is simply a statement of dislike. Maimonides expressed 13 articles of faith (which see) and they were widely accepted between his time and the beginning of the enlightenment - but there is no widespread agreement that accepting those articles of faith is a requirement under Jewish law. This is a fairly contentious issue - not so much wrt atheists - but wrt Reform and Conserv Jews. Most Reform Jews do not accept all the 13 articles, and many Conser jews either do not accept them all, or accept them only with fairly radical reinterpretation. SOME orthodox Jews think this makes those R and C jews heretics, and violators of the law even IF they follow all the ritual laws of Judaism - at least some Orthodox Jews do NOT think that way though.
Note however, it is widely agreed that idolatry is against jewish law, as is following a false messiah.
This is a very contentious issue, and I'm well aware most Jewish religious sects view Messianics as Christian. But a Christian merely means a follower of Yeshua.
I'm a Messianic,.
Im also a messianic Jew. I pray for the Moshiach to come
Regardless, one can still be culturally and ethnically Jewish, while following another religion. One born to a Jewish mother will always be Jewish, regardless of their beliefs.
According to halacha yes. A Jew who worships an idol is still a Jew, just a sinning, idolatrous Jew.
According to the folk wisdom of the people, its not so clear cut
ordinary Jews have for centuries drawn a distinction between Jews who became atheists, and those who converted to Christianity or Islam. Probably because historically, atheist Jews still lived within ghetto walls, and shared the fate of the People. While those who converted escaped, and chose a different fate.
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Get off your high horse. And FYI, not all Messianics or Christians agree with the Trinity. I do not believe God "died" in the sense you're referring to, nor do I believe in Hell.
