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Of course this thread turned into another senseless JoCo argument. BOTH SIDES of that argument are just silly.
Where are these entitled JoCo people who think JoCo and everyone in it are the end-all-be-all? I've lived in Olathe and Overland Park for most of my life and I still haven't met any of these entitled people. But just about every day I get anywhere from a half-joking snarky remark "oh you're one of those JoCo snobs" to actual disdain for living in the suburbs, and the implication that somehow my life is devoid of culture or personality - simply because of the part of town I live in. Which side is entitled again?
There is a common theme here. JoCo people never see where the KS side IS the one that is not working as a metro. Do you have any idea how many times the city of KCMO along with the MO side suburbs, the State of Missouri and Jefferson City and even the regional corporate community has reached out to the KS side and Topeka to try to stop the poaching and create more regional cooperation for things such as transit and culture? Guess what, nearly every time the KS side and Topeka responds with a resounding “we don’t give a ….. deal with it”.
Can you try to read that post above and tell me where it says anything about entitlement? How many times do I have to say I don't have a problem with suburban development? I live in a suburb here. I lived in one in KC after I had school aged kids. I'm fine with the burbs, always have been. Now, I don't do much in the burbs other than sleep because even though I live in the burbs, I tend to spend most of my free time in more urban areas, but that's my preference. Most people that live in the burbs tend to stay in the burbs and I respect that. I'm not a snobby urbanite that looks down on people that like suburbs.
Yea, there are people in JoCo that look down on people in urban KCMO and the MO suburbs as well as KCK. Just like there are people in urban KCMO that look down on people who like suburbs.
That has never been my argument.
If you go back through all my posts and seriously read them with an open mind, you will see that all I have ever wanted from JoCo was some regional cooperation and civic pride. Civic pride is more than being a royals or chiefs fan.
The migration of the corporate economy from KCMO to JoCo has done a tremendous amount of damage to KC. While most metros have experienced suburban flight (residential and corporate), very few (if any) have dealt with what KCMO has dealt with. And KCMO gets double dipped because after KS steals its companies with ridiculous bribes, they also refuse to support cultural assets they leave behind with less tax money to maintain them. If you take companies like Fishnet and AMC, that's less tax revenue for the Zoo or Museums etc. JoCo would much rather fund a brand new bush league zoo on 169th Street than join in with other metro area counties and help make the existing zoo world class. JOCO IS A TERRIBLE REGIONAL PARTNER AND EVERYBODY IN KC EXCEPT THOSE IN JOCO KNOWS IT. Even Topeka knows what they are doing is wrong, but they can point to JoCo and say, look at all the growth! And the public eats it up and buys it and they get re-elected.
The EXTREME poaching, freeloading and lack of respect and cooperation from the Kansas side has hindered the entire metro area's ability to compete on a national and global scale. The KC area can barely implement a simple city bus route between its two largest counties.
Yet the only responses I get from JoCo posters is I'm jealous. You have to be kidding me. I have never been jealous of JoCo. I'm jealous of Denver and Minneapolis and Seattle and San Diego and Portland and other regions that don't have half their metro pulling in a different direction.
I'll say it again and I'm sure I'll say it many more times.
The day the Kansas side decides it wants to be a part of a metropolitan region and not its own separate entity that happens to use some of KCMO's assets is the day that the ENTIRE KC area will rise to a level nobody ever thought possible. Until that happens, KC will never really get over the hump and will just continue to sprawl out into several independent metros that don't really get along and think that they are growing when they poach something from another area of the region at tax payers expense no less. Metro KC is spinning its wheels when it should be roaring down a drag strip at top speed right now and drawing huge crowds and national attention.
Metro KC has a lot to offer but because KCMO is too busy fending off the KS side and the KS side is too busy taking advantage of the MO side, the metro has no ability to build regional infrastructure, take downtown to the next level and actually GROW the economy by bringing in NEW jobs, developers and residents.
I don't get why this is so hard to understand for those that live in Kansas. I have said it before, if things were reversed and KCK was the main city and I-470 had 20 million sq ft of companies that used to be in KCK and KCK had the zoo the sports venues, the airport, the amusement parks, the museums, the nightlife etc and Jackson County did nothing but freeload and take take take, I would be just as hard on Jackson County as I am on Johnson County.
Be one metro, act like one metro. KC does not do that. Not in the least.
Of course this thread turned into another senseless JoCo argument. BOTH SIDES of that argument are just silly.
Where are these entitled JoCo people who think JoCo and everyone in it are the end-all-be-all? I've lived in Olathe and Overland Park for most of my life and I still haven't met any of these entitled people. But just about every day I get anywhere from a half-joking snarky remark "oh you're one of those JoCo snobs" to actual disdain for living in the suburbs, and the implication that somehow my life is devoid of culture or personality - simply because of the part of town I live in. Which side is entitled again?
There is a common theme here. JoCo people never see where the KS side IS the one that is not working as a metro. Do you have any idea how many times the city of KCMO along with the MO side suburbs, the State of Missouri and Jefferson City and even the regional corporate community has reached out to the KS side and Topeka to try to stop the poaching and create more regional cooperation for things such as transit and culture? Guess what, nearly every time the KS side and Topeka responds with a resounding “we don’t give a ….. deal with it”.
Can you try to read that post above and tell me where it says anything about entitlement? How many times do I have to say I don't have a problem with suburban development? I live in a suburb here. I lived in one in KC after I had school aged kids. I'm fine with the burbs, always have been. Now, I don't do much in the burbs other than sleep because even though I live in the burbs, I tend to spend most of my free time in more urban areas, but that's my preference. Most people that live in the burbs tend to stay in the burbs and I respect that. I'm not a snobby urbanite that looks down on people that like suburbs.
Yea, there are people in JoCo that look down on people in urban KCMO and the MO suburbs as well as KCK. Just like there are people in urban KCMO that look down on people who like suburbs.
That has never been my argument.
If you go back through all my posts and seriously read them with an open mind, you will see that all I have ever wanted from JoCo was some regional cooperation and civic pride. Civic pride is more than being a royals or chiefs fan.
The migration of the corporate economy from KCMO to JoCo has done a tremendous amount of damage to KC. While most metros have experienced suburban flight (residential and corporate), very few (if any) have dealt with what KCMO has dealt with. And KCMO gets double dipped because after KS steals its companies with ridiculous bribes, they also refuse to support cultural assets they leave behind with less tax money to maintain them. If you take companies like Fishnet and AMC, that's less tax revenue for the Zoo or Museums etc. JoCo would much rather fund a brand new bush league zoo on 169th Street than join in with other metro area counties and help make the existing zoo world class. JOCO IS A TERRIBLE REGIONAL PARTNER AND EVERYBODY IN KC EXCEPT THOSE IN JOCO KNOWS IT. Even Topeka knows what they are doing is wrong, but they can point to JoCo and say, look at all the growth! And the public eats it up and buys it and they get re-elected.
The EXTREME poaching, freeloading and lack of respect and cooperation from the Kansas side has hindered the entire metro area's ability to compete on a national and global scale. The KC area can barely implement a simple city bus route between its two largest counties.
Yet the only responses I get from JoCo posters is I'm jealous. You have to be kidding me. I have never been jealous of JoCo. I'm jealous of Denver and Minneapolis and Seattle and San Diego and Portland and other regions that don't have half their metro pulling in a different direction.
I'll say it again and I'm sure I'll say it many more times.
The day the Kansas side decides it wants to be a part of a metropolitan region and not its own separate entity that happens to use some of KCMO's assets is the day that the ENTIRE KC area will rise to a level nobody ever thought possible. Until that happens, KC will never really get over the hump and will just continue to sprawl out into several independent metros that don't really get along and think that they are growing when they poach something from another area of the region at tax payers expense no less. Metro KC is spinning its wheels when it should be roaring down a drag strip at top speed right now and drawing huge crowds and national attention.
Metro KC has a lot to offer but because KCMO is too busy fending off the KS side and the KS side is too busy taking advantage of the MO side, the metro has no ability to build regional infrastructure, take downtown to the next level and actually GROW the economy by bringing in NEW jobs, developers and residents.
I don't get why this is so hard to understand for those that live in Kansas. I have said it before, if things were reversed and KCK was the main city and I-470 had 20 million sq ft of companies that used to be in KCK and KCK had the zoo the sports venues, the airport, the amusement parks, the museums, the nightlife etc and Jackson County did nothing but freeload and take take take, I would be just as hard on Jackson County as I am on Johnson County.
Be one metro, act like one metro. KC does not do that. Not in the least.
Thanks, KCMO. This is fascinating. Explain to me exactly how the KS side is "poaching" businesses from the MO side? I've heard of Texas "luring" businesses away from San Diego..some choose to go..some choose not to.
Is it not the out-going MO based business, itself, ultimately the one who decides to leave one area for another..for whatever reason? Those out-going MO companies don't have to leave if they choose not to..right?
There is a common theme here. JoCo people never see where the KS side IS the one that is not working as a metro. Do you have any idea how many times the city of KCMO along with the MO side suburbs, the State of Missouri and Jefferson City and even the regional corporate community has reached out to the KS side and Topeka to try to stop the poaching and create more regional cooperation for things such as transit and culture? Guess what, nearly every time the KS side and Topeka responds with a resounding “we don’t give a ….. deal with it”.
Can you try to read that post above and tell me where it says anything about entitlement? How many times do I have to say I don't have a problem with suburban development? I live in a suburb here. I lived in one in KC after I had school aged kids. I'm fine with the burbs, always have been. Now, I don't do much in the burbs other than sleep because even though I live in the burbs, I tend to spend most of my free time in more urban areas, but that's my preference. Most people that live in the burbs tend to stay in the burbs and I respect that. I'm not a snobby urbanite that looks down on people that like suburbs.
Yea, there are people in JoCo that look down on people in urban KCMO and the MO suburbs as well as KCK. Just like there are people in urban KCMO that look down on people who like suburbs.
That has never been my argument.
If you go back through all my posts and seriously read them with an open mind, you will see that all I have ever wanted from JoCo was some regional cooperation and civic pride. Civic pride is more than being a royals or chiefs fan.
The migration of the corporate economy from KCMO to JoCo has done a tremendous amount of damage to KC. While most metros have experienced suburban flight (residential and corporate), very few (if any) have dealt with what KCMO has dealt with. And KCMO gets double dipped because after KS steals its companies with ridiculous bribes, they also refuse to support cultural assets they leave behind with less tax money to maintain them. If you take companies like Fishnet and AMC, that's less tax revenue for the Zoo or Museums etc. JoCo would much rather fund a brand new bush league zoo on 169th Street than join in with other metro area counties and help make the existing zoo world class. JOCO IS A TERRIBLE REGIONAL PARTNER AND EVERYBODY IN KC EXCEPT THOSE IN JOCO KNOWS IT. Even Topeka knows what they are doing is wrong, but they can point to JoCo and say, look at all the growth! And the public eats it up and buys it and they get re-elected.
The EXTREME poaching, freeloading and lack of respect and cooperation from the Kansas side has hindered the entire metro area's ability to compete on a national and global scale. The KC area can barely implement a simple city bus route between its two largest counties.
Yet the only responses I get from JoCo posters is I'm jealous. You have to be kidding me. I have never been jealous of JoCo. I'm jealous of Denver and Minneapolis and Seattle and San Diego and Portland and other regions that don't have half their metro pulling in a different direction.
I'll say it again and I'm sure I'll say it many more times.
The day the Kansas side decides it wants to be a part of a metropolitan region and not its own separate entity that happens to use some of KCMO's assets is the day that the ENTIRE KC area will rise to a level nobody ever thought possible. Until that happens, KC will never really get over the hump and will just continue to sprawl out into several independent metros that don't really get along and think that they are growing when they poach something from another area of the region at tax payers expense no less. Metro KC is spinning its wheels when it should be roaring down a drag strip at top speed right now and drawing huge crowds and national attention.
Metro KC has a lot to offer but because KCMO is too busy fending off the KS side and the KS side is too busy taking advantage of the MO side, the metro has no ability to build regional infrastructure, take downtown to the next level and actually GROW the economy by bringing in NEW jobs, developers and residents.
I don't get why this is so hard to understand for those that live in Kansas. I have said it before, if things were reversed and KCK was the main city and I-470 had 20 million sq ft of companies that used to be in KCK and KCK had the zoo the sports venues, the airport, the amusement parks, the museums, the nightlife etc and Jackson County did nothing but freeload and take take take, I would be just as hard on Jackson County as I am on Johnson County.
Be one metro, act like one metro. KC does not do that. Not in the least.
Sorry if you thought I was directly calling you out, there is and was a lot of negativity towards JoCo in general. By no means do I call you or anyone jealous of JoCo. What's to be jealous of? Yes it's an area with nice suburbs, but that's about it - it's just a place to live. I see Luzianne likes to throw the jealousy card out there, but that's just their own way of being an annoying troll (which for some reason every KC forum I've ever been on has the worst trolls of anywhere on the internet.. are we that bored here?)
I do agree with you on the bolded, our area does not act like a metro, and it comes from all parts of the metro area. The only unity we seem to have is sports, but for those of us who couldn't care less about the Chiefs or Royals we really do not have a common flag.
As to businesses moving across state line, this happens all the time all over the country; businesses move to areas with more beneficial tax and income structure, to be more convenient for employees, for more advantaged distribution, etc. We just see the effects more directly since we straddle the state line.
Honestly, I don't see the metro "being one" in any sort of way due to our location, ever. Denver, Seattle, Portland, etc. are all within the same state, so of course they don't have the business tax/incentive issue within their own metros. I cannot think of any cities straddling a state line that get along as one metro.
As for 'Kansas using KCMO's assets,' are you suggesting that we shouldn't be allowed to use anything in KCMO? You don't want me to cross the state line to give your businesses my dollars, or work at your businesses?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastward_ho
Thanks Brian...encouraging words!
No problem at all! I hope you enjoy it here when you move.
Sorry if you thought I was directly calling you out.
I didn't. I actually debate the issues at large and don't post directly at other posters. Others do that, but it's only because that's all they want to discuss. I would assume because they know I'm right so they resort to personal insults toward me, which I just blow off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianf408
As to businesses moving across state line, this happens all the time all over the country; businesses move to areas with more beneficial tax and income structure, to be more convenient for employees, for more advantaged distribution, etc. We just see the effects more directly since we straddle the state line.
Of course this happens everywhere, but it's nowhere near as extreme any place else, (even metros that cross state lines). I have actually followed development closely and researched extensively other bistate metros and even posted the result on this forum. Cincinnati, St Louis, Memphis, Portland, Philly, NYC all have state line issues, but nothing like what's going on in KC, not even close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianf408
Honestly, I don't see the metro "being one" in any sort of way due to our location, ever. Denver, Seattle, Portland, etc. are all within the same state, so of course they don't have the business tax/incentive issue within their own metros. I cannot think of any cities straddling a state line that get along as one metro.
I don't agree with that because other metros do get along as one metro, at least a lot better than KC. Look at Cincy and Northern KY as an example. Even StL and metro East IL get along far better than KCMO and KS. Even Omaha and Iowa work together, even if it's just for the MO river pedestrian bridge and the levee parks on both sides. They are working together on something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianf408
As for 'Kansas using KCMO's assets,' are you suggesting that we shouldn't be allowed to use anything in KCMO? You don't want me to cross the state line to give your businesses my dollars, or work at your businesses?
Of course not, I have always wanted the KS side to support MO side attractions. The KS side is now 40% of the metro population, KCMO attractions need the KS side support. But because so much of the population is on the KS side now, it only makes sense that the KS side help support regional assets in other ways other than just tickets, especially if they are going to poach away all the revenue generating businesses. People in KCMO purchase tickets too. The stadiums, zoo, museums etc would all be in far better shape and would have lower admission fees if the entire region supported them. Same with transit. It's ridiculous that transit is nearly non existent between a county of 700k and a county of 600k that are right next to each other and have a nearly seamless border. There is not even a river between the two counties.
^^^^^ So you had to hijack a thread about Overland Park to say the same things that you have said over and over and over and over again on this forum that obviously stem from your deep-seated jealousy of Johnson County that must have started in childhood?
Some other commenter instigated and/or referenced him by name. He was entitled to a defensive response. As anyone would be.
kcmo's points are continually clear, he nor is no one jealous of JoCo. It's just how JoCo has become what it is, and how functions with the area as a whole, that's the problem. And some people do appreciate how he elaborates those problems.
Thanks, KCMO. This is fascinating. Explain to me exactly how the KS side is "poaching" businesses from the MO side? I've heard of Texas "luring" businesses away from San Diego..some choose to go..some choose not to.
Is it not the out-going MO based business, itself, ultimately the one who decides to leave one area for another..for whatever reason? Those out-going MO companies don't have to leave if they choose not to..right?
There are a dozen posts about it. Just google bi state border war kansas city. There are actually quite a few national articles and they focus on KC because it's worse in KC than anywhere else. It really is a problem and if you are truly interested about it, there is plenty of info about it. Basically, KS is going broke to bait KCMO companies to move there. It's been going on for a long time. They spend many times more in public incentives to lure companies from right across state line than most states do to lure companies from a different state a thousand miles away. No "new" jobs to the metro. Just a total waste of tax money and it's destructive to the metro. Plus the KS side is just not a good regional partner when it comes to regional cooperation in almost any way be it transit, recreation, culture, sports venues etc. The Kansas side only wants to use rather than contribute and if they had it their way, they would just duplicate everything that already exist in a established central locations with lesser quality attractions out in JoCo and have their own little Omaha over there with their own airport, zoo etc. So Metro KC ends up fighting within itself rather than competing with Dallas and San Diego for businesses. It's not working and stats are proving that.
This really doesn't drill down to individual people. If you move to KC (KS or MO side), you will not notice a lot of the animosity that's on the internet. People generally go about their lives in KC and don't worry about any of this. You will get occasional ribbing about which side of state line you like etc, but it's mostly just talk and something to give each other a hard time about. No matter where work or shop or interact in metro KC, it's such a bisate area, that you are always around people from both states. So I do hope you find a place in Johnson County you like. It's a nice area.
But these topics (which are mostly economical and urban planning issues) are important. Very important. It does effect people (and where their taxes go) and the quality of life in KC and the overall health and future of the entire metropolitan area.
So, I just hope you also come to KC with an open mind and realize it really is one metro and the core of the metro is and will always be Kansas City, MO. Johnson County is part of a great metro area anchored by a great city that would be much greater than it is now if most of this bi-state stuff could somehow be resolved.
Only someone in JoCo would think people are jealous of JoCo lol! I thought people were jealous of me because I lived in Overland Park... but then I got out from under the rock at age 18 and left home and left Kansas. Now I can view it with more of an outsider's perspective, and it's nothing special. Suburbs exist all over the country.
Well, Money Magazine's Best Places to Live disagrees with you. Overland Park is someplace special.
I definitely know people who are jealous of Johnson County, a lot of them living on the Missouri side. Johnson County has great schools and low crime. Our streets are taken care of. We don't have trash littering the streets like you often see in Jackson County. It's just NICER. Are there nice suburbs on the Missouri side? Sure. But it's not Johnson County.
Of course an outsider isn't going to think Overland Park is anything special. They know nothing about it.
On the subject of Johnson County/snobs, which someone else brought up. I was thinking about this today. What snobs? About the only snobs I see in Johnson County are old ladies - I mean OLD ladies -driving Cadillacs in Johnson County. I don't know why big Cadillacs are their vehicle of choice, but it seems to be. I saw one today. Couldn't miss her, cause she pulled right out in front of me!
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so they resort to personal insults toward me, which I just blow off.
So you had to hijack a thread about Overland Park to say the same things that you have said over and over and over and over again on this forum that obviously stem from your deep-seated jealousy of Johnson County that must have started in childhood?
