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Westport Landing sat at the base of a bluff when it was established in 1838. That bluff is still a presence on the west side of downtown Kansas City, but as Westport Landing grew, the town fathers gradually whittled the north-facing bluff away as the settlement expanded southward; it's now more of a gradual slope southward from the River Market, which is also still elevated somewhat from the Missouri River floodplain.
Kansas City's history is one of gobbling up farmland and putting houses on that land. Most of the territory it annexed between 1944 and 1983 was still planted in corn and soybeans when the city annexed it. I would chuckle whenever I was flying into KCI, because the flight attendant would announce "Welcome to the Kansas City area" as you looked down on nothing but farms as your plane descended. (The Northland has since become developed along I-29 headed towards the airport.)
In the 1960s, it was the 25th largest city in the country by population (1960 Census: 475,539) but the 8th largest in area (316.3 square miles). The only obstacle the city faced to unfettered annexation was the state line. (I'm not sure whether Missouri has since thrown up other obstacles like laws requiring a majority vote of the residents of the territory to be annexed.)
I'd say the Ohio River forms a greater barrier to municipal expansion in Indiana than the topography, just as the Missouri kept the Northland from developing at the same pace as the annexed territory south of 79th Street.
That may be the case to an extent regarding annexation in KC, but here in Floyd County, New Albany would face more geographical constrains regarding additional annexations because of the additional added costs that are much greater to get city water and sewer up a giant hillside at greater geographical distances to areas that have much more dispersed infrastructure. Also, this isn't just a gradual slope, but a nearly 500 ft gain in elevation in less than 1/2 a mile in some places, so it creates a good barrier in my opinion to stop high density residential development in its tracks. The area I live in is on community water from the township, so no city water, but everyone is on septic in this 40+ year old semi-rural neighborhood of nearly one acre lots. The nicest advantage about the elevation is that it is always 5-10 degrees cooler than the city of Louisville that has a massive urban heat island problem. Our climate zone is a mixture of a slightly milder version of Bloomington, IN or Cincinnati, OH due to the elevation of 900 ft.
That sounds like something a west side Cincinnatian might say about people on the east side, but your brand of disliking based on geography is in a class by itself.
I've lived in both metros, and it's a toss up, imo. If there is something about Over The Rhine that really floats your boat, you won't find that in KC. KC's river market doesn't really have a peer in Cincinnati. Brookside is analogous to Hyde Park/Mt Lookout. Roanoke/Volker is kind of like Clifton. Mason and Blue Ash are essentially the same as Overland Park.
KC has a distinctly more western flavor. People in KC have almost kind of like a frontier mentality... covered wagons and such, outwardly humble sensibilities, newer buildings, heartland, emphasis on craftsman style residential architecture. In Cincinnati people have a more Appalachian style, decidedly eastern facing, with heavy German culture. Brick row houses with mansard roofs. Cincy is older and maybe a bit quirkier. I give KC a slight edge on future preparedness. Both have their fair share of closed minded people, conservative, but they also have a lot of young folks breathing life into the central cores.
Thanks! This definitely lines up with what I've read/seen/experienced.
I've been to Kansas City once and to me, when I think of Kansas City, I think of: Country Club Plaza, Ward Parkway, Mission Hills, and the rest of Johnson County suburbs. That entire contiguous area around Ward Parkway and Mission Hills is gorgeous and the rest of Johnson County, while not exactly gorgeous, iw definitely a single, huge contiguous area of safe, upper scale suburbs.
I did also notice in KC the surprisingly pleasant, rolling topography which came as a surprise. I loved the fact that once you cross over from Ward Parkway into Johnson County, Kansas, that whole, huge county is carefully zoned for safety and good schools. That is such a huge blessing to know you can hop on Ward Parkway, marvel at all the mansions and lush landscaping for a good three miles, and then (essentially) take a right and be completely safe for probably 30 miles of nice suburbs.
I do remember the outer Kansas suburbs were noticeably bland, and everything seemed to be built around divided highways with traffic lights and strip malls. I will say however that I loved that homes there have wood-shingle roofs. Wow...I was amazed by that. What a blessing to have a climate lacking in humidity enough that (seemingly) everyone can have wood-shingle roofs (even on cookie-cutter, suburban sprawl type houses).
I do love a metro area where you can pick a direction and from there on out everything is nice, clean, and safe. That's obviously not true everywhere but is definitely true in Kansas City. I haven't been to Cincinnati, but I've been looking around quite a bit on google maps. Cincinnati is absolutely loaded with historic homes and cute, walkable Main Street type areas. The Over the Rhine section alone is phenomenal and that's just one of many, many areas.
What I didn't love about Cincinnati from what I've been able to see so far, compared to Kansas City, is that I couldn't find a spot where you can do the equivalent (as in KC) of driving 3 miles down an elegant Ward Parkway-like main road, marvel at the beauty, and then essentially take a quick right and drive into 30 miles of ultra safe suburbs with top schools.
In other words, in Cincinnati there doesn't seem to be a single Main Street that personifies the best of the metro area and takes you directly into the nicest parts of the metro. By comparison, the nice part of KC is amazingly contiguous.
In contrast the nice parts of Cincinnati, (and there are many), seem kind of separate, spaced apart, and all kind of different. Indian Hills has two-lane, rural-ish roads. Hyde Park is like a historic, wealthy town of its own. Then there's Northern Kentucky across the river, Anderson township on the Ohio side but across yet another river, and many new suburbs further north.
Maybe because of the varied topography, Cincinnati feels like a collection of smaller places that add up to something huge, whereas Kansas City felt like a single (extremely nice), large, contiguous place.
I want to go check out Cincinnati one day to really see it in person, but for some reason there's something about Kansas City's design that feels clean and all put-together that gets under my skin.
I can definitely see your point here. The first time we visited KC, we stayed in Overland Park and that area was really beautiful and really suitable for families. I just feel a little too young to appreciate all of that (though of course I appreciate my safety!)
Some of the broad-brush derision has a historic aspect to it.
For instance, Kansas City had a unified metropolitan transit system for about a decade, from the creation of the Kansas City Area Transportation Authority in 1969 until Johnson County pulled out of the five-county authority a decade later, complaining that the county wasn't getting the level of service it deserved with its largely commuter-oriented bus routes (which were commuter-oriented too when the private company that ran them was incorporated into the KCATA).
Most of JoCo's county-run bus service was also commuter-oriented, with the difference being that anyone headed to downtown KC now had to change at the Country Club Plaza. It's something of a delicious irony that Johnson County now contracts with the KCATA to run its bus system — but that does help with the unified branding the five operating agencies have adopted to promote regional transit, "RideKC." (The five agencies are the KCATA, the City of Independence, the Unified Government [of Wyandotte County and Kansas City, Kansas], Johnson County and the Kansas City Streetcar Authority.)
And while the 49 municipalities of northeast Johnson County do run the gamut from blue-collar Merriam and Roeland Park (and I've seen the pockets of poverty in Merriam) to ultra-chi-chi Mission Hills and Leawood (Prairie Village, J.C. Nichols' answer to Levittown, is one notch below these), they all have a common school district, Shawnee Mission Unified. It's historically been the pride of the county and a bragging point relative to the city, whose school history has been tragic ever since I left the public system for a private school (the city's most prestigious, now called Pembroke Hill) in 1970. (If you're curious about that tragic history, there's lots of material about it online; Google "Kansas City school desegregation case.")
When I was growing up, many JoCo boosters pointed with pride to the county's status as one of the 25 richest in the country. It's long since fallen out of that rarefied company, but it remains incredibly affluent on the whole, and it's the affluent part that sets the tone for the entire county. It also has a reputation for not wanting to take part in any region-wide initiatives seen as benefiting or focusing on the core city; the triumph that made Clay Chastain (Google his name too) a household name in the city, the restoration of Union Station thanks to a region-wide sales tax, was an exception to that rule. During the debate on replacing Kansas City International Airport with a facility more suitable for the way we travel by air now, there was a group of people arguing for a brand-new airport on former Olathe Naval Air Station land instead of building a new terminal on the current KCI site, which definitely had the room for it. (The new airport is being built on the site of the demolished Terminal A at KCI.)
Does any of this help explain things?
Well stated, as usual. I will try to research it a bit. As a Johnny come lately, the caricature of the JoCo snob on this message board seems overblown when compared to the reality on the ground. It's just another suburb as far as I'm concerned. The public schools are good, but they aren't really all that. Wyoming or Indian Hill (in Cincy) would take Blue Valley to cleaners, I'd wager, but those are much smaller districts so the comparison isn't really fair.
Ohio vs Kansas City area? I don't favor Missouri that much, but I believe it would be preferable to Ohio, based on weather alone. Though it appears it is close to a tie. Kansas City has more sunny days, though.
I don't want to further derail this thread by turning it into a good old fashioned JoCo vs KCMO brawl (we haven't had one of those lately and unfortunately, it looks like one of the usual instigators showed back up to help stir the pot in another thread). But I will say that I have noticed, not only on this site but IRL, the conflict and tribalism between to two areas does seem to be waning. I know some of the posters that bring up the Border War don't live in KC anymore so they may not be aware of the change I am noticing.
As trivial as it may seem, I noticed the change happening around the time of the Royal's World Series appearance in 2014. This was furthered by their championship in 2015 and the Chief's Super Bowl this year. I think those events helped to bring the city together and foster greater civic pride.
The Royals two World Series appearances coincided with Downtown development/renewal starting to reach critical mass. People in JoCo (and other suburbs) started having more pride in the city and began to enjoy coming to Downtown, Crossroads, River Market, etc.
Also, the truce in the economic incentives for jobs Border War helped further this (although it is clear that battle is not completely over). Mizzou leaving the Big 12 and no longer playing KU probably didn't hurt things either.
The isolationism and anti-city snobbery still exists is some circles of JoCo, but I do see it lessening, especially among the younger generations.
I don't want to further derail this thread by turning it into a good old fashioned JoCo vs KCMO brawl (we haven't had one of those lately and unfortunately, it looks like one of the usual instigators showed back up to help stir the pot in another thread). But I will say that I have noticed, not only on this site but IRL, the conflict and tribalism between to two areas does seem to be waning. I know some of the posters that bring up the Border War don't live in KC anymore so they may not be aware of the change I am noticing.
As trivial as it may seem, I noticed the change happening around the time of the Royal's World Series appearance in 2014. This was furthered by their championship in 2015 and the Chief's Super Bowl this year. I think those events helped to bring the city together and foster greater civic pride.
The Royals two World Series appearances coincided with Downtown development/renewal starting to reach critical mass. People in JoCo (and other suburbs) started having more pride in the city and began to enjoy coming to Downtown, Crossroads, River Market, etc.
Also, the truce in the economic incentives for jobs Border War helped further this (although it is clear that battle is not completely over). Mizzou leaving the Big 12 and no longer playing KU probably didn't hurt things either.
The isolationism and anti-city snobbery still exists is some circles of JoCo, but I do see it lessening, especially among the younger generations.
What you say heartens me, but:
I for some strange reason think Midwest college football has been diminished by the ending of the MU-KU rivalry.
Even if it produced things like Mizzou fans in Kansas City walking around in black-and-gold Tigers jerseys with "Quantrill" where the name appears on the back.
That sounds like something a west side Cincinnatian might say about people on the east side, but your brand of disliking based on geography is in a class by itself.
I've lived in both metros, and it's a toss up, imo. If there is something about Over The Rhine that really floats your boat, you won't find that in KC. KC's river market doesn't really have a peer in Cincinnati. Brookside is analogous to Hyde Park/Mt Lookout. Roanoke/Volker is kind of like Clifton. Mason and Blue Ash are essentially the same as Overland Park.
KC has a distinctly more western flavor. People in KC have almost kind of like a frontier mentality... covered wagons and such, outwardly humble sensibilities, newer buildings, heartland, emphasis on craftsman style residential architecture. In Cincinnati people have a more Appalachian style, decidedly eastern facing, with heavy German culture. Brick row houses with mansard roofs. Cincy is older and maybe a bit quirkier. I give KC a slight edge on future preparedness. Both have their fair share of closed minded people, conservative, but they also have a lot of young folks breathing life into the central cores.
The western flavor in JOCO feels very forced and artificial. The homes don't even try to blend into the landscape and look completely out of place in relation to the climate and vegetation of the area. In reality, the residential architecture basically ended up being up being a "flavor of the decade" meaning architectural styles at various price points were shifting quickly. Also, JOCO has next to zero brick houses built in the last 30 years similar to what you see commonly in many areas of the Midwest.
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