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Too many folks in prison today, the penalties should be oriented towards employers hiring illegal aliens.
I would deport the illegals almost immediately, after a brief prison stay. They should be given a stiffer sentence if found to have crossed the border again. But to put them in prison for the term you suggest is something we cannot afford, nor would it be appropriate.
We are going after employers.
And, what you suggest (highlighted above) is already also being done. IMO, we need to strongly discourage the FIRST crossing - for, once they are here, the problems only get worse.
As for prisons? More tent jails ala Sheriff Joe. There is lots, and lots of desert in the Southwest -
Oh, My Goodness!! You all have absolutely NO CLUE about the US legal immigration process, do you? Illegal immigrants in the US are out of control BECAUSE of the expensive and complicated, not to mention time consuming, process of immigrating to the US LEGALLY.
1) It is NOT easy to come to the US for someone from a non-western European country. Anybody from Asia, Africa, Middle East, or South America, can tell you that it takes months just to get an interview at the US consulate for a simple tourist visa, tons of supporting documents (including your latest bank statements with sufficient funds in it), not to mention expensive (US consulate generally charges $100 for each visa application) with no guarantee that your visa will be approved, and they certainly owe you no explanation if your visa is rejected.
2) It takes generally 4-8 years for someone to get a permanent residency AKA greencard. Someone mentioned Australia's immigration in previous post. Compare this to Australia which generally takes 6-12 months to get permanent residency.
3) Once you get your greencard, you have to wait for 5 more years before you are allowed to apply for naturalization/US citizenship. Once applied, it takes another 6-12 months to process. A permanent resident in Australia needs only wait for 2 years before she/he can apply for citizenship and it's processed within 3-6 months.
4) Someone posted the need to increase requirement of immigrants' education level. It's been done. There are different types of temporary work visas in the US and each education level requirement is tailored according to each job.
So bottom line, the US LEGAL immigration requirements and procedures have been set up as tough as can be, and stopping the flow of legal immigrants will only punish these honest, law abiding, procedure following, people - not to mention encourage more people to break the law (because it's easier). As long as there are desperate people and dishonest employers, there will always be illegal immigrants.
There is a difference between taking a stand against illegal immigration and making ignorant statements about people. Yes, there needs to be something done about curbing and controlling the flow of illegal immigration but it means coming up with workable and reasonable solutions. Just calling them animals, claiming they are a bunch of ruthless murders and lack no compassion because of some crimes committed by illegals is ignorant, bigoted, and often times racists. Solutions are not racists in nature, but name calling a bunch of people is. That is the difference.
There is a difference between speech and action. When lynching of illegals begins, then you will have a point. Until then, people can say whatever they want. Funny thing about speech; when people are angry, they tend to vocally overreact. Human nature. Live with it (or limit yourself to PC friendly environments.)
Oh, My Goodness!! You all have absolutely NO CLUE about the US legal immigration process, do you? Illegal immigrants in the US are out of control BECAUSE of the expensive and complicated, not to mention time consuming, process of immigrating to the US LEGALLY.
1) It is NOT easy to come to the US for someone from a non-western European country. Anybody from Asia, Africa, Middle East, or South America, can tell you that it takes months just to get an interview at the US consulate for a simple tourist visa, tons of supporting documents (including your latest bank statements with sufficient funds in it), not to mention expensive (US consulate generally charges $100 for each visa application) with no guarantee that your visa will be approved, and they certainly owe you no explanation if your visa is rejected.
2) It takes generally 4-8 years for someone to get a permanent residency AKA greencard. Someone mentioned Australia's immigration in previous post. Compare this to Australia which generally takes 6-12 months to get permanent residency.
3) Once you get your greencard, you have to wait for 5 more years before you are allowed to apply for naturalization/US citizenship. Once applied, it takes another 6-12 months to process. A permanent resident in Australia needs only wait for 2 years before she/he can apply for citizenship and it's processed within 3-6 months.
4) Someone posted the need to increase requirement of immigrants' education level. It's been done. There are different types of temporary work visas in the US and each education level requirement is tailored according to each job.
So bottom line, the US LEGAL immigration requirements and procedures have been set up as tough as can be, and stopping the flow of legal immigrants will only punish these honest, law abiding, procedure following, people - not to mention encourage more people to break the law (because it's easier). As long as there are desperate people and dishonest employers, there will always be illegal immigrants.
I've heard numbers between one and two million legal immigrants per year. Plenty of people are accepted despite your claims of tough requirements. The question is how many per year should we accept, and what would be the requirements to achieve such a level?
I couldn't care less about someone bitching "It's too tough!" Cry me a river. Lots of things in life are tough. Lots of things are tough - exclusionary - for very good reasons. Immigration is one of those things.
There is a difference between speech and action. When lynching of illegals begins, then you will have a point. Until then, people can say whatever they want.
So racists are only racists when they take action or lynch someone? Wow, I didn’t realize the bar was raised to action and no longer included belief systems and commments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer
Funny thing about speech; when people are angry, they tend to vocally overreact. Human nature.
Yes, let people who make ignorant and bigoted statements over and over again just use the “oh I’m just overeacting and it is human nature” excuse. Regardless if it is human nature, it completely detracts from finding solutions to the problem, which is illegal immigration and to go back to the topic, legal immigration which also caused people to be here illegally when they overstay their visas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer
Live with it (or limit yourself to PC friendly environments.)
In other words, you want to justify racism on PC grounds instead of dealing with solutions to legal and illegal immigration?
I've heard numbers between one and two million legal immigrants per year. Plenty of people are accepted despite your claims of tough requirements. The question is how many per year should we accept, and what would be the requirements to achieve such a level?
Well if it is legal immigrants for employment, strictly follow the H-1B requirements and the number allowed is the number needed. However the employer is responsible to show that they tried to get Americans first and there were none available.
For legal migration for tourism, that’s a little tougher.
So racists are only racists when they take action or lynch someone?
I never said that.
Quote:
Wow, I didn’t realize the bar was raised to action and no longer included belief systems and commments.
.
And I didn't realize that our minds should be controlled to think and believe only what you find acceptable.
This is a free country. If you don't like the freedom of belief we enjoy, there are some countries with mandated belief systems you may find more to your liking.
Quote:
Yes, let people who make ignorant and bigoted statements over and over again just use the “oh I’m just overeacting and it is human nature†excuse. Regardless if it is human nature, it completely detracts from finding solutions to the problem, which is illegal immigration and to go back to the topic, legal immigration which also caused people to be here illegally when they overstay their visas.
What do you mean "let" people? Are you opposed to freedom of speech?
Quote:
In other words, you want to justify racism on PC grounds instead of dealing with solutions to legal and illegal immigration?
I don't want to justify anything. I am already justified in my own opinions. Those of others are their responsibility.
Do you want to control people? Are you of the type; "If only everyone believed exactly as I, the world would be a better place?"
Thanks High Springs Gator; ITA. There are far too many Americans of all races (particularly the new younger voters) that are clueless as to what jumping on the Obama bandwagon will represent for their future. For the first time in my life, I will sit this election out as none of the so called "top-tiered" candidates will be good for America's future.
Well, you're right. Much of the youth knows anything in detail. They base too much off who they like. What people want seems pretty simple though. That's to get in the right economical path, get our troops out of Iraq (which works hand in hand with the first thing), revise the health care system, reform illegal immigration and more than all - get Bush out (and Republicans - especially ones that support the war) and get some change. Personally, I think Hillary Clinton would make just as good a president as Barack Obama - but if she were president two terms, that'd be 36 years in a row of Clinton/Bush president/vice presidents. And if she were vice president and became president for two terms, that'd be 44 years. That's too much.
People almost are one extreme to the other though. Some people say we got great candidates just like how American idol judges say how they think their singers are so great, even though many think they all suck. Than some say our candidates suck all together. To keep things in perspective, I think we have okay candidates. It's fair to say all of them could be taking on more than what they're equiped for, but our current president is much to blame for that. And being the head of his own party could inevitably tank his party. It's what got Democrats congress back in 2006.
Plus, if you looked at the tracking polls general elections - many show McCain beating Clinton. Almost all show Obama winning, and some by a decent margain. Obama doesn't come off condescending like Hillary does. It might shock some, but not all evangelicals are turned off by him. He doesn't need to mush another candidate to advance his own changes. I voted for Obama in the primaries and will vote for him in the general election. Being a quarter of a century younger than McCain won't hurt his chances either. So with Barack Obama, I think it's safe to say we're going to destroy Republicans in the general election. It's simply a matter the difference of Democrats having decent candidates and Republicans having crapy ones.
This is a free country. If you don't like the freedom of belief we enjoy, there are some countries with mandated belief systems you may find more to your liking.
What do you mean "let" people? Are you opposed to freedom of speech?
Do you want to control people? Are you of the type; "If only everyone believed exactly as I, the world would be a better place?"
Nice way to justify bigotry. Just say “oh, you are opposed to freedom of speech”. Nope, I follow the philosphy that “Freedom of Speech” covers that I find offensive, which means government cant censor it just because I find it objectionable. But that doesn’t mean racist comments cannot be called out as racist and bigots cannot be pointed at and mocked.
Moratorium may not be necessary if we were to go back the the pre 1965 immigration rules----------and, enforce them rigoriously,
This idea could work, if it's possible to be brought about. A cap definitely is necessary. I do think a moratorium would be necessary if we were to really look at it this carefully though. People might actually be shocked to realize things would get better gradually over a hypothetical three year period.
People may start supporting the idea of stopping or significantly reducing legal immigration.
I'd definitely give people time in advance to prepare for such a plan, but this could be necessary. I think focusing too much on illegal immigration is really overshadowing immigration as a whole. Adopting a style to other modern countries may just be the way to go about it. It might shock some, but if you driving into Quebec through the upstate New York border you could probably go about 40 minutes without seeing anything except for like three motels. Safe to say, I don't think their citizens want the rest of Quebec looking like Montreal either. They contain their population and resources well which is exactly what we should be concerned for doing. The immigration and population growth we've experienced is out of control.
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