"great LI schools" (New York, Oceanside: 2013, how much, neighborhood)
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Other than test scores, what are LI schools rated on? I was skimming the 2013 list and noticed most (if not all) of the top rated schools are in more affluent areas with little diversity..makes sense. But that being said, how much of this is socio-economical? These parents likely can afford and provide for additional instruction (private tutors, SAT prep, etc) This is a big generalization, but I also imagine these parents put a lot of pressure and emphasis on education if they are very successful themselves. What is it specifically about the schools that make them "top notch?" Also, is it any tougher to get a teaching position at these schools? Meaning, are there different requirements for teachers, like level of experience, proven "track records" in standardized tests, master degree etc.?
I live in Oceanside, we don't have children yet so I can't comment of the district, but I am just wondering, other than test scores what sets the district apart from Rockville Centre, a blue ribbon school district that is nearby? RVC is also a more affluent neighborhood in comparison to Oceanside.... I'm not looking for this to be a school district debate either, I am just genuinely curious...
I would like to know this as well. How can you know if a district has an artificially inflated ranking because they know how to 'play the game' and know the things to push the students to do to increase the school's numbers? I suspect this is the case with a handful of districts which never used to be considered top districts but now rank up there. It seems like you have to look at the rankings as only a part of the big picture- you have to really research the district, talk to other parents, etc.
As for the fact that many of the top districts are wealthy ones, well, that seems to be true of most schools- not just Long Island. Wealthier parents have the luxury of more time & money- in many top districts tutors are commonplace even for above average students. They simply have more resources to devote to their children to ensure that they do their best. I'm sure genetics plays a role too- successful, wealthy parents often have higher IQs which (usually) gets passed on to their children.
I don't know about every ranking list, every time, but it seems like the things that tend to be taken into consideration when those lists are made are (1) state test scores; (2) scores of HS students on SATs/ACTs; (3) number of students continuing to 2 and 4 year colleges; (4) number of students taking AP/IB classes; (5) scores on AP/IB exams; (6) class sizes; (7) extracurriculars (primarily # of activities offered). So yes, it does seem like the vast majority of things used to rate districts are at least somewhat tied to the affluence of the parents.
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As for the fact that many of the top districts are wealthy ones, well, that seems to be true of most schools- not just Long Island. Wealthier parents have the luxury of more time & money- in many top districts tutors are commonplace even for above average students. They simply have more resources to devote to their children to ensure that they do their best. I'm sure genetics plays a role too- successful, wealthy parents often have higher IQs which (usually) gets passed on to their children.
Careful now that smacks of Darwinism. Perhaps the more affluent communities have households with at least one if not both parents college educated. Perhaps the household places a greater importance on education. Perhaps just being in a school with a community that supports it increases the positive influence a child experiences. But with all this said there is no guarantee that the child is going to be any smarter than a child that comes from a modest background.
What makes the difference is the parents and the emphasis they place on education. We often hear that parochial schools are better, they are not better but they are supported by the parents and the community and that's why they often succeed when the local PS fails.
Read through previous posts on this board, ranking of schools is an on going battle and when it's over most parents seem to feel satisfied with the education their children got and that's all that matters.
Regardless of how you may feel about IQ, I doubt there is a link btwn IQ and school performance. In school, you pretty much just memorize and regurgitate the stuff that is fed to you. Anybody who puts enough effort into it can memorize and regurgitate anything they want to (unless they have a disability).
There are a lot of factors that determine how well a child will probably do in school. I think the biggest determinator is family/economic background:
If you come from a family/neighborhood where most of the adults [aka default role models] have careers that don't require college/higher intelligence then the minimum acceptable standard won't be trying hard to prepare for college since that is irrelevant to your community. If you come from a family/neighborhood where most the adults are professionals w/careers that require extensive education then that will be your standard. Children observe much more then they appear to. Also, when it comes to family background again. Lots of struggling families are headed by one parent. If you have two parents to keep after you, make sure your homework is done, go to parent-teacher conferences, etc; then this helps a child's performance.
BTW: A lot of the top LI districts have a lot of diversity. Look up most of the districts in NW and NE Nassau, they have sizable Asian&Indian percentages.
Last edited by MemoryMaker; 03-11-2014 at 11:32 AM..
Careful now that smacks of Darwinism. Perhaps the more affluent communities have households with at least one if not both parents college educated. Perhaps the household places a greater importance on education. Perhaps just being in a school with a community that supports it increases the positive influence a child experiences. But with all this said there is no guarantee that the child is going to be any smarter than a child that comes from a modest background.
What makes the difference is the parents and the emphasis they place on education. We often hear that parochial schools are better, they are not better but they are supported by the parents and the community and that's why they often succeed when the local PS fails.
Read through previous posts on this board, ranking of schools is an on going battle and when it's over most parents seem to feel satisfied with the education their children got and that's all that matters.
So you don't think IQ plays a role in how well someone does in school? Really?? No doubt parental involvement is important- as are socioeconomic factors- but I cannot imagine anyone thinking that IQ doesn't play a role.
Regardless of how you may feel about IQ, I doubt there is a link btwn IQ and school performance. In school, you pretty much just memorize and regurgitate the stuff that is fed to you. Anybody who puts enough effort into it can memorize and regurgitate anything they want to (unless they have a disability.
How on earth can there NOT be a link between intelligence and school performance? Yes other factors of course play a role- but no doubt that having natural intelligence helps. I'm not sure where you went to school, but at the schools I went to you had to do A LOT more than memorize & regurgitate. In fact, by high school, there was very little memorization involved in anything other than foreign languages. It actually makes me very sad to think that somebody's school experience was all about memorization.
Generally speaking, the higher the 'spending per capita' is, the better the school district. Higher spending per student equates to better resources in the district, better extracurricular programs (with ability to pay for better equipment/supplies, etc), better test preparation, etc. All of these things overall contribute to a higher achieving student body.
New York spends the most per student (2011) at $19,076, while the national average is $10,560.
Generally speaking, the higher the 'spending per capita' is, the better the school district. Higher spending per student equates to better resources in the district, better extracurricular programs (with ability to pay for better equipment/supplies, etc), better test preparation, etc. All of these things overall contribute to a higher achieving student body.
New York spends the most per student (2011) at $19,076, while the national average is $10,560.
this is why LI school tax are so high. NYC spends about 10,500 per kids...maybe it closer to 11,000 now. Some parts of LI go close to 30 grand per child.
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So you don't think IQ plays a role in how well someone does in school? Really?? No doubt parental involvement is important- as are socioeconomic factors- but I cannot imagine anyone thinking that IQ doesn't play a role.
No I never said anything to that effect. My response was to your statement that "wealthy parents often have higher IQs which (usually) gets passed on to their children". I don't believe they are genetically at an advantage and have seen great students come from all socio-economic groups/backgrounds.
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