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FYI -- the taxpayers do not vote on teacher compensation like they vote on the rest of the school budget. That is determined by the school board and superintendant privately. We just have to pay what they come up with.
But you don't vote on Pfizer's annual operating budget do you?
On LI, the job protection of the teachers' unions can also serve to protect the worst of the bunch. I am sure Bronxville will be able to attract a librarian who is just as good as the one who left. Is Bronxville actually doing something about their out-of-control school taxes? I remember reading a NY Times article about how the residents of Bronxville were complaining about their school taxes and wanted changes made in how the school compensated teachers. Did you read that article?
As for private schools and teachers "willing to accept lower pay and benefits," yes, what you are saying is reasonable. But note they are not considering themselves as being offered pay so low that they cannot afford to take the teaching job. The supporters of the status quo on LI think that we HAVE TO pay EXCESSIVE compensation to public school teachers or nobody competent will even be bothered to take the job.
Yes I read the article and they are complaining, but they usually cave in eventually after teachers and other public employees threaten declining property values. There was even this resident in the article paying up to $50K in taxes.
Private schools do not have to play by the same rules as public schools. I'm not saying that "all" of their teachers are not as well-qualified as public school teachers, but some have degrees that are not even remotely related to teaching.
Also, private school teachers know they can't fail students who are poor achievers as they might lose a "customer".
And with no unions (or weak unions) many teachers last only a few years. Private schools can't afford to keep teachers who make "too much" money. The trustees and headmaster determine what is taught, how it is taught.........
Also, as an aside, private school parents spend a lot of money on private tutors. (surprised?)
Before you tell me that private schools have to follow state guidelines, I will suggest that those guidelines are not as strict as you think.
How do I know? I know someone who taught in a so-called elite private school.
I also know someone who sent his children to a private school (on LI). I believe their children were cheated of the superior education available in our public schools. (little or no choices available re: advanced classes)
Parents who send their children to "elite" private schools believe their children won't be exposed to drugs or to the riff-raff that attend public schools.
Last edited by ipollack; 10-09-2012 at 11:54 PM..
Reason: mis-spelled word
As I said earlier, I have worked with kids in both public and private schools and everything ipollack just said is true. While there are some good teachers in the private schools where I worked, the staff turnover rate IS much higher than in public schools and there definitely ARE unqualified (lacking degrees, etc) teachers in the private schools. That would never happen in public school, not when there are stricter regulations governing public schools, along with incentives for a teacher to further their education.
And the friends I have who send their kids to private school do so for one reason. They believe their kids will not be subjected to bullying in private school. Their reasons are not educational per se, and they are willing to overlook lack of facilities and programs and subject themselves to hefty fundraising requirements on top of high tuition,in order to ensure their child is in an environment that they perceive as being safer.
I was answering someone else who said that the entire reason for the excessive compensation paid to public school teachers on LI is the cost of living and without this excessive compensation we would not be able to get teachers to work on LI. I disagreed with that reason. As you yourself noted, the private schools don't have to pay excessive compensation on LI to get teachers to work for them, and since parents are paying EXTRA to send their kids to private school, do you think they pay all this extra money so their kids are taught by incompetents? No. The teachers in private schools are performing their jobs satisfactorily or the parents would vote with their dollars and move their kids to another school. So why should the taxpayers have to pay excessively for public school teachers? The sole reason: the teachers' union being in bed with the school boards, administration and the politicians. They have lobbying money; the taxpayers don't. You're an attorney working for school districts. You never heard of all the cronyism and the outright lying and cheating being done? How about that scandal where attorneys from private firms were being falsely categorized as school district employees so they can unjustly eat at the trough of taxpayer-funded pensions? How about the scandal about the school board member in a LI district who just happened to create a small private company in order to get funding from the school they were on the board for to the tune of $500K a year ... all on the backs of the taxpayers?
If you really think the excessive compensation is because they want to attract the best and the brightest, then you should talk to people who have been complaining for years about INCOMPETENT teachers that are never fired. Even when you don't want your kid in their class, the principal tells parents they MUST have at least one of their kids in the dud teacher's class ... a subsequent kid doesn't have to. Both twingles and OhBeeHave can attest to this as they both live(d) in different school districts and had to have 1 of their kids subjected to a known for years dud teacher and their kids ended up needing extra help to catch up the next year. So does that sound like a "best and the brightest" situation? Or more like a cronyism situation where they will keep the union member in place no matter how poorly they perform their job? Another thing you will see a lot of the same last names in teaching, administration and many husband wife or parent sibling groupings in LI public schools. Why? How are all these related people in the same school districts? Because it's WHO you know, not WHAT you know when it comes to getting a teaching job on LI in large part. Don't even go there about the best and brightest either when it comes to layoffs. They will layoff the person with the least seniority who could be a genius instead of the known and talked about DUD teacher with more seniority every single time. Don't even go there when it comes to raises, etc. The raises are UNIFORM no matter how good or how bad a teacher performs their job. So please get out of the dreamworld where LI's schools provide excess compensation for the "best and the brightest." It is not true and who could look at how they actually run things and come to that conclusion. It is all a result of union cronyism.
As for the question of: "So how should public schools on LI compensate teachers?" I still say it's somewhere in the middle of what private school teachers make and what public school teachers make. I'd like to hear other people's opinions on that.
You may be overstating the power of the teachers' union nowadays. You are on target concerning the nepotism and cronyism rampant at the schools - usually a function of board of education or superintendent misconduct. You correctly point out the crooked school district lawyer scandal that indicated the awful alliances between school district lawyers, superintendents and school boards. I am continually amazed that school district lawyers essentially write the contracts for superintendents who can then thank them (and their firms) by tossing bogus and expensive litigation their way. One reason for the mess we are in in terms of public schools here on Long Island is the peculiar notion that school boards and school district lawyers think they work for the grossly overpaid superintendents. Without independent boards (independent of the unions and the superintendents) with intelligent and independent thinkers we are sunk.
Private schools do not have to play by the same rules as public schools. I'm not saying that "all" of their teachers are not as well-qualified as public school teachers, but some have degrees that are not even remotely related to teaching.
Also, private school teachers know they can't fail students who are poor achievers as they might lose a "customer".
I don't know where you're getting this information about private schools. There are some mediocre private schools but most privates have faculty who hold masters degrees in the fields that they teach. And the comment about not failing poor achievers is not true. Private schools in reality cherry pick their students and have the flexibility to dismiss many of those who don't measure up. There will always be the offspring of rich donors and alumni boosters who will get by but those are exceptional cases. Given the increasing wait lists in these schools, losing customers is not a major concern.
LI schools pay more than NYC schools because they want to attract better teachers and administrators. One thing that struck me when looking for a home on LI was how the prices rise and fall with the school district. Take Lynbrook for example. I could tell what school district a house was in not by looking at the address, but on looking at the stats of the house and the price. A Lynbrook house in the Lynbrook district is listed for more than a Lynbrook house in the East Rockaway, Valley Stream or Malverne districts. Same for Rockville Centre with the Oceanside, Baldwin or Malverne districts. Our schools are our pride and joy. That will always be a major advantage to LI.
Talk about simplistic. The school taxes are MUCH more about tax base and how much commercial tax money is in play and not the least bit about the "quality" of the schools, although sometimes that turns out to be true e.g. Jericho or Syosset where people buy into that myth and overcompensate their teachers and admins thinking they are somehow bolstering their utopian fantasy of home values and every kid going to Yale. Building a mall brings down taxes regardless of the quality of the schools. Declining business sector or RE taxes increases taxes regardless of the quality of the schools or teachers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneakyvegan
NYC schools pay less because the Department of Education is huge and has to hire a lot more of everyone -- teachers, administrators, maintenance workers, etc. Every teacher in NYC works on the same payscale -- those who are fighting an uphill battle in low-income areas with parents and kids who don't have the time to care, and those who work in Bayside/Douglaston who are essentially working in LI schools without the LI paycheck. As an attorney who represents suburban school districts, I have to say that the issues that the NYCDOE has to deal with on a day to day basis are more complicated that even the most skilled LI administrators at the best LI districts can fathom. I would not want the Chancellor's job. (OK, maybe I would).
...and yet the Chancellor makes on par with the average Principal on LI and far less than the average administrator. I'm not sure what the argument is here? The NYC schools pay too little. Fair enough. Doesn't mean the LI schools don't pay too much. There should be some reasonable market parity.
If you go to www.seethroughny.net and click "payrolls" and "schools," you can get an idea of what teachers make in the district. If you click "contracts" you can usually peruse current teacher contracts.
Newsday's web site also carries teacher salary information, but you have to subscribe to the newspaper or Cablevision to access it.
I hate to tell you this, but seethroughny.net is not accurate. I was talking about this site with a friend of mine, after I saw it mentioned on this board. She is a teacher in Nassau (her 13th year) and seethroughny has her salary listed 20k more than what her salary actually is, according to both her tax return and contract. She is a fellow adoptive parent and is in the process of an adoption now. Her accountant just had to get a letter from her district showing her current salary. Again, 20k less than seethroughny. I believe that there is wasteful spending and overpaid teachers, but seethroughny is not accurate- far from it. It has more holes than swiss cheese! Maybe that is why it is see through. LOL!
Again...there is wasteful spending, but there has to be a better source of information than this site as the numbers are just not accurate, plain and simple.
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Private Schools on LI
