Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It probably depends on the location. Certainly a place in the Triangle, in an affluent area with many PhD's is going to do well. What about for hoi polloi? When you go to the schools that are less affluent, with less educated parents? Compare a working class/lower middle class town in NC to Levittown or FDale. Also, take Southern SAT scores with a grain of salt. The percentage of students in the South that take SAT is much smaller, in my old HS in NY, just about everyone took the SAT.
Why should we take the scores in the south with a grain of salt Why do you say this?
"Students in the South that take the SAT is much smaller".....well they take either the SAT or the ACT or even both....if they don't take these exams...how else do they go on to college?
I'll be the first to acknowledge (and have in a prior post) that every kid in every district CAN do just as well or as poorly as anyone else in this country. Do they actually do as well if you look at the data?
This is not to say good test-taking students will certainly get the best job or succeed in life. This is only arguing the merits of paying to live here, or saying what we say - we have verifiable results that we can speak to. You speak about anecdotal evidence and what you "see". All possible, but less likely the norm than a good proven district with like-minded parents, proper motivators in place, and opportunities.
We don't LIKE paying the high amount that we do, but when combined with the quality of life that we have and being near who we know, it does make it worth it. Nobody ever says you should stay and do the same - it's more the other way around - people tell us we're crazy and we shouldn't do it because wow look at what they have now. Parting shots.
If the end game is to raise a self sufficient child who goes to college, graduates, gets a job and moves out, then my neighbors here blow my neighbors up north out of the water where it's hardly even expected that your child will be able to move out after graduation.
By the way, I would need MORE than 2 hands to count the number of kids I know who went to GCHS who went off to prestigious private colleges and were home before the end of the first semester because they couldn't hack it. Yeah, that was worth the taxes. I'm not talking about a kid here and there and I'm not talking about kids who barely made the cut. I'm talking kids who went off to any school you'd be happy to send yours to. I know even more on the 5 and 6 year plan. I just don't see that around here. If you want the honest truth, which I'm sure will cause a storm of controversy here, I believe that teachers on LI just pass kids along with stellar grades because it makes them look good. I had this experience myself with one of my kids, who had to immediately go into remedial math when we got here because he didn't learn jack in 3rd grade in GC, yet his report card mysteriously has all 3s and 4s from that year. Things that make you go "hmmmmm".
Know why parents and teachers hate Common Core in NYS? Because there are actual standards and rubrics that have to be followed and you have to prove the grades you give. Tough spot to be in when you usually just give out good grades like candy!
My neighborhood was built 18 years ago so the first wave of kids has started graduating college a few years ago. I have a couple of friends who've lived here that long and one is a native LI-er who moved here way back then. She knows nearly everyone in the 'hood. Her oldest graduated from college a few years ago. There is ONE kid she knows of who has graduated college and is still living at home but his parents are selling so he will soon have no choice but to fly the coop.
I have another co-worker who just announced her son's engagement. He is 24 years old, just bought a house in a great part of downtown Raleigh. No help from either parents. They are getting married in the fall. You show me two 24 year olds in the NYC metro who can do that. And the attitude is totally different. There's an optimism in all these plans. Not an "well I'm from here so I'll suck it up and make the most of it" attitude. No worry about whether they will be able to afford it in 5 years. If (IF) their taxes go up it will probably be $200 or so. Contrast that with the aggravation and worry we see on home buying threads here on LI CD.
At this point, I think you not only have to worry about your taxes going up, but degradation of what is offered in school. Your kids are in kindy or first grade if I remember. By the time they get to HS (when it counts) I think you can count on the offering being a shell of what they currently are, for a much higher price. I keep up with what goes on in GC, and they are cutting several programs and services this year - and it's all for a price tag that is going up and up and up. One of these programs is one that parents were insisting be expanded just 5 short years ago!
We did the math and figured by the time our youngest got to HS our taxes would be $17,500. Our youngest is in 4th grade - 8 years away from high school graduation - and those taxes are $15K. Every increase is just piled onto what you already pay. Retirees with Cadillac benefits are living a looooong time and they will be retiring at an alarming rate in the next 20 years as the Baby Boomers leave the workforce in droves.
Bottom line, you're (again) not going to convince me, when I live it every day, that your schools are better than mine. And I will take that $12K savings every year and put it toward a college education that I KNOW is going to happen, and it won't be a worse college than they would get into if we still lived in NY. It just won't. Again - if that is the endgame, then I have ZERO worries about it. Additionally, as I've told my kids, NYC is not going anywhere. If they want to try living there when they graduate college, they can have at it. My aforementioned friend's child has friends that have done just that - with no plans to stay. They just want to experience it and move on.
As for the intangibles, see my first couple of paragraphs. Can't put a price on that. And I believe that's what everyone wants, regardless of where they live. Don't see the point of paying $12K and up to educate my child only to have them in my basement with their Star Wars sheets for 10 years after they graduate from college. When I see kids here going to college and moving right on with their lives, I have to say I think I am going to get a better return on my investment. That's without even comparing the state university systems.
And again, you bring up the point of parental expectations and background. You must have missed my point in my earlier thread about the demographic where we live. IN fact, demographically speaking, my kids' school most closely resemble Jericho and Great Neck. As caucasions they are in the minority - my schools are mostly Indian and Asian. I think we can all agree those parents don't take education lightly so if you believe that a "rising tide raises all boats" then you can rest assured that my kids' schools are competitive enough (probably too much so at times). Their parents are doctors, engineers, etc - not a bunch of Wall Streeters who have high paying jobs simply because their dads got them in to the right firm.
Now I'm off to my job in a school where the kids are still writing with slate and chalk because that's all we can afford here in the south. Tomorrow I go on a field trip with a horse and buggy. Gonna be a long day.
When people pay such low taxes as in the other states (one poster mentioned 1500/yr) makes you wonder what is subsidizing that education. 1500 doesn't even get good snow clearance and trash pickup, put everything else into that, how are they getting the money?
I am amazed myself. It is a shock after paying through the nose on Long Island for so many years. Not only are the schools decent here, but the local government funds the parks pretty well. The parks have no entrance fees and contain many free amenities including petting zoos and working farms.
To answer your question, I often wonder what subsidizes these things. For one thing, I notice there are many senior citizens here, not priced out of the area like long island. Another thing is that there hasn't been an influx of illegal aliens and anchor babies draining the tax base. Also, it is very split politically here, so the public servants work for the people, and not the other way around. The political parties are always courting the residents and not merely paying lip service to them, as they do in solidly blue or red states. I have come to the conclusion that the education and health care unions basically own Albany. It is the largest mafia in American history.
In the end, I can't imagine just flushing $10,000 in taxes down the toilet every year, which is what you do on Long Island.
When people pay such low taxes as in the other states (one poster mentioned 1500/yr) makes you wonder what is subsidizing that education. 1500 doesn't even get good snow clearance and trash pickup, put everything else into that, how are they getting the money?
As other posters have stated you should experience somewhere else. My tax rate is $8.70 per 1k assessed value for everything. We have only property tax which pays for schools, libraries, parks etc even snow removal if needed. When your work force receives fair compensation and not union inflated wages communities can provide the services at a reasonable cost. Our schools are excellent with the same college opportunities for the graduates that your grads have.
Why should we take the scores in the south with a grain of salt Why do you say this?
"Students in the South that take the SAT is much smaller".....well they take either the SAT or the ACT or even both....if they don't take these exams...how else do they go on to college?
Notice the percentage of students taking the exam ranges from 3 percent in Miss to 86 percent in Maine. North Carolina is currently at 63 percent, vs 84 percent in NYS. The South favors the ACT, a much easier exam. You need neither test to enter college, I've known people who have never taken any of these tests and graduated grad school
Notice the percentage of students taking the exam ranges from 3 percent in Miss to 86 percent in Maine. North Carolina is currently at 63 percent, vs 84 percent in NYS. The South favors the ACT, a much easier exam. You need neither test to enter college, I've known people who have never taken any of these tests and graduated grad school
You said that the the students that do take the SAT in the south... you have to take their scores with a grain of salt So my sons that take the SAT in in VA...their scores aren't compatible to my nephews in NY? .... I asked why?
And you say that the ACT is easier then the SAT.....well that's a matter of opinion not fact
You said that the the students that do take the SAT in the south... you have to take their scores with a grain of salt So my sons that take the SAT in in VA...their scores aren't compatible to my nephews in NY? .... I asked why?
that's not the point he's trying to make. If you don't see it, you're either being difficult on purpose or you're simply not bright enough to understand.
I am amazed myself. It is a shock after paying through the nose on Long Island for so many years. Not only are the schools decent here, but the local government funds the parks pretty well. The parks have no entrance fees and contain many free amenities including petting zoos and working farms.
To answer your question, I often wonder what subsidizes these things. For one thing, I notice there are many senior citizens here, not priced out of the area like long island. Another thing is that there hasn't been an influx of illegal aliens and anchor babies draining the tax base. Also, it is very split politically here, so the public servants work for the people, and not the other way around. The political parties are always courting the residents and not merely paying lip service to them, as they do in solidly blue or red states. I have come to the conclusion that the education and health care unions basically own Albany. It is the largest mafia in American history.
In the end, I can't imagine just flushing $10,000 in taxes down the toilet every year, which is what you do on Long Island.
No such thing. Educate yourself. No baby born in the US to illegal immigrant parents can provide (i) a right of residency, (ii) a right of permanent residency or (iii) citizenship to their illegal immigrant parents. Its a made up term that means nothing. While the baby himself is a US citizen, there is no anchoring, period.
Don't get me wrong, I think "undocumented immigrants" is also a misleading term. Its like going to some quack and saying "Yes yea he didn't go to medical school, no degree certificate - but its ok he's just an undocumented doctor"
As other posters have stated you should experience somewhere else. My tax rate is $8.70 per 1k assessed value for everything. We have only property tax which pays for schools, libraries, parks etc even snow removal if needed. When your work force receives fair compensation and not union inflated wages communities can provide the services at a reasonable cost. Our schools are excellent with the same college opportunities for the graduates that your grads have.
The OP's point was that in many states with low taxes, it doesn't seem like the property taxes are enough to cover the education cost that is spent by the state per pupil (look up what it costs per year to educate a student in your state & compare to what the average household pays in property taxes). Granted not every household has school age kids, but some households have 2 or 3 (or more) kids...
In other words, in most states (even low tax states) the state spends at least $8,000 per student per year...but it seems like many households are paying far less than that in taxes. How do the taxes cover education spending? And how is there any money left over for everything else that taxes need to pay for?? Or are there really that many households without school age kids to make up for the difference?? Or maybe business are taxed higher? Or the income tax is higher? The money has to come from somewhere.
And how is there any money left over for everything else that taxes need to pay for?? Or are there really that many households without school age kids to make up for the difference?? Or maybe business are taxed higher? Or the income tax is higher? The money has to come from somewhere.
Because when you aren't shoveling money into the unions and legacy pensions, income/property/sales tax can go a long way. In my Pennsylvania school district the average teacher earns $47,000 per year, while in Suffolk County the average teacher earns over $90,000 per year. Why should the Suffolk County teacher earn 2x as much as their Pennsylvania counterpart, when the average SAT/ACT in my PA school district out performs that of many Suffolk County districts? Higher taxes also have the unintended consequence of scaring those away who actually do pay taxes. On my block, half the people are senior citizens. They aren't being driven out to Florida or Arizona. When senior citizens move out, who do you think moves in? Drive around such places as downtown Hicksville and find out. Now, sit back and think back to yourself what that does to tax base. Medicaid/3 families to a house.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Why do you say this? 
Tomorrow I go on a field trip with a horse and buggy. Gonna be a long day.
So my sons that take the SAT in in VA...their scores aren't compatible to my nephews in NY? .... I asked why?
