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The children have to test to get into the program. AndreaII would be able to give you better insight as to whether the 130 is a firm number, or if they've dipped their standard in the past. IMHO it would make no sense to dip the standard to 129 as it would only create more problems with the parents whose wunderkind have a 128 -- they would cry foul.
They would probably retest. When I was in 3rd grade, I scored a 128 (with the flu). I retested when I was well at +130. My parents didn't want me to go to gifted though because, I would be pulled out of my private school and bused to the local public school, missing a lot of work and friends. I don't regret missing out on the program and am glad I wasn't pushed too hard. I wound up excelling academically anyway throughout my life and AP classes filled the need for more strenuous classes. I was able to graduate high school 3 credits shy of a college Sophomore. They just wanted the retest to see what I would get if I was well. I believe that if I didn't score the 130+ the next time, I wouldn't have had the option of the program. It is a shame that gifted programs are being cut in so many districts. The truly off-the-charts highly gifted students (150's+ IQ) do need a very different learning environment to excel. As a high school teacher, I have had many gifted students in my honors level classes. It is a shame the high school doesn't offer more for these students.
I attended LISG way back: a ~135 IQ was needed to get in.
It was a pretty good school-worth the money.
I lived about a mile away from the school- but I know of people who wouldn't get home till after 5 PM.
That might not be good for some kids.
The children have to test to get into the program. AndreaII would be able to give you better insight as to whether the 130 is a firm number, or if they've dipped their standard in the past. IMHO it would make no sense to dip the standard to 129 as it would only create more problems with the parents whose wunderkind have a 128 -- they would cry foul.
The 130 cutoff is supposed to be firm in Three Village, but years ago according to rumor, parents would scream and yell at the then principal, Wendell Chu, of Mount Elementary School (where IG was housed and still is) when they felt their kids would benefit from the program even though their kids didn't make the 130 grade and missed by a few points. I'm not entirely sure, but I think a few of them were let in the program, and at least one of those kids was dismissed from the program for not being able to handle the work.
That 130 cutoff is the standard for these types of special ed programs. As far as staying on task and other such skills, you would think that would come into play somewhat, but perhaps those things are taken into consideration during the IQ test administered to the students. I've seen very average students stay on task with a fierce determination, but that in itself wouldn't qualify them for the program. There really is quite a difference in the way a high IQ student thinks vs. average.
Regarding Lorna Lewis, I believe OhBeeHave is right about her leaving the district to become superintendent at another SD. Perhaps it is East Williston - can't really remember. Some of the parents were very glad to see her go.
That 130 cutoff is the standard for these types of special ed programs. As far as staying on task and other such skills, you would think that would come into play somewhat, but perhaps those things are taken into consideration during the IQ test administered to the students. I've seen very average students stay on task with a fierce determination, but that in itself wouldn't qualify them for the program. There really is quite a difference in the way a high IQ student thinks vs. average.
Actually, in most gifted programs "other such skills" are weighted more heavily than you would think. There aren't enough students who will score above the 130 needed for entry to fill a program using IQ as the sole criteria. For a grade consisting of 150 students you would only expect about 2-3 students to test above 130.
There really is quite a difference in the way a high IQ student thinks vs. average.
I am not sure I agree with this. The idea of a IQ as one number to measure someone's brain seems very minimalist to me. My personal experience suggests that the difference between average performers and stellar performers in school are not because they are less smart, but less motivated/interested/confident/organized.
Learning is a complex process. I remember taking dance lessons, and the speed with which a person picked up the dance varied, but over time, the slow and steady learner became a better dancer than the talented one who picked up the moves at once, but failed to practice regularly. I think the same thing applies for learning math, I am not discounting the importance of talent/IQ, but things like perseverance, passion for a subject are as important ( I think more) than raw IQ.
Guess this is in the realm of Psychology and has nothing to do with the current thread.
Guess this is in the realm of Psychology and has nothing to do with the current thread.
No, your comment is very pertinent to this thread. The OP suggested she was considering moving her family based on a label a school psychologist decided to attach to her daughter. If this thread is about anything at all it is about parental psychology!
I meant to say my answer is probably not helping the OP, because she has already decided that gifted programs are the way to go and her question was about schools with gifted programs.
Actually, in most gifted programs "other such skills" are weighted more heavily than you would think. There aren't enough students who will score above the 130 needed for entry to fill a program using IQ as the sole criteria. For a grade consisting of 150 students you would only expect about 2-3 students to test above 130.
Out of approximately 600 students per grade class in Three Village, roughly 100 every year are selected from the battery of tests administered in second grade and are offered the IQ test. The year my daughter was tested the number was 88. Out of those 88, 32 made the cut. Two classrooms were formed. By the time she was in 6th grade those classrooms had 30+ students in each.
88 students out of the third grade alone = 32 who have IQ's 130+. That makes your theory of 2 - 3 out of 150 wrong. Not sure where you're getting your information from.
In TVCSD there are plenty of kids with high IQ's - take a look at some of my other posts about the district. It's a district filled with extremely smart parents - lots of them are professors, etc., at the U. Their children are as bright as they are and then some. But perhaps Three Village is the anomaly - perhaps the rest of the districts are exactly as you say - nowhere near the brainpower, and the district has to make up the difference with "other such skills." If that's really the case, then you're right - there aren't enough bright kids to fill a classroom. Perhaps that's why the other districts don't have self-contained - just not enough students to fill them.
Out in Three Village there are enough students to fill 2 classrooms of self-contained 130+ IQ's beginning in the third grade. There had to be a minimum of 16 students to a classroom set by the guidelines of the school board. And each of those 16 had to have IQ's 130+ - no filling with "other such skills." Building on that through 6th grade, every year another set of kids would enter the program - in fourth grade those classes grew to about 20 - 21 students, etc., by the time the students made 6th grade, those classes were bulging with the kids who finally tested out, made the program and were sent. Those classes topped off at 30 - 32 students per classroom - way over the official class caps, but no one was turned away ever. The program has always stayed with 2 classrooms - there would have been too much public outcry if they made three classrooms.
Today the program begins in the 4th grade, and I would imagine that around 20 kids fill each of the two classrooms based on the above info.
I can tell you that special ed. programs for the bright are necessary - most of you are just guessing about what these kids are like. I know what they're like - I can tell you from personal experience myself - never learned much at all in elementary school. School was totally boring and I was surrounded with very slow kids. Felt as though I didn't belong in the class through the years. Same routine every day. Repetition galore. OMG. The regimentation - ugh. One example stands out in my mind: it took me 2 hours (2 hours! I thought I was so stupid at the time) to learn reliably the times tables. Then I discovered the rest of the class needed 3 months. That pretty much says it all.
IQ's of 130 make up 2% of the population - anyone can look that up. It's true. IQ's over 140 make up .6% of the population. For those of you who don't believe it, research it. You'll find it to be true. And if you truly think it's all nonsense and that all students grasp things at the same speed, well, then perhaps you're in the other 98% of the population and just can't fathom it.
So, yes, I'm quite the advocate for special ed. for smart kids - not so sure I would call it gifted though - gifted with what? With not fitting in? With being bored? These kids are between a rock and a hard place in the elementary years and sometimes beyond. And don't even get me started on jealous parents who teach their average kids to hate the bright students.
So Cathicool you really got some information here - maybe more than you bargained for. If you would like you can private email me if you have any questions.
I've heard some really good things about West Babylon and Bay Shore.
The psychologist who did the IQ test on my daughter suggested Bay Shore, Northport and to a lesser extent HHH. He said Bay Shore is really a solid district- get passed the diversity- and is also a good, well rounded district--meaning it is good for the "ends" (special ed and gifted) and for the middle (typical) learner. He said that most people don't regard Bay Shore as a good district, but it really has a lot to offer kids and should be a top choice for us. So I called thie district and spoke to several people and I have to say that I think the psychologist may be right! I guess I should'nt be surprised-- the district we currently live in has a great reputation...but it's so not the case IMO!
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