What Impact will the Expo Line have on neighborhoods south of the 10 Freeway? (Pasadena: 2015, apartments)

[SalParadise]

As was posted in another recent thread, the EXPO LINE, Phase I is scheduled to open in April 2012.

Exposition Transit Corridor, Phase 1 to Culver City

Phase I will go from Downtown LA to Culver City. Phase II will open in 2015 and extend from Culver City to Santa Monica.

What impact (positive and/or negative) do you think the Expo Line will have on the neighborhoods south of the Santa Monica (10) Freeway.

I am thinking mostly of the neighborhoods along Exposition Blvd. around the following stops/stations:

1. USC/Exposition Park
2. Exposition/Vermont
3. Exposition/Westnern
4. Exposition/Crenshaw

[BRinSM]

it's tough to say because areas that already have rail provide mixed results. it's certainly true that hollywood and downtown have seen huge tremendous turnarounds since the rail lines were complete. then there's the stretch of the blue line between downtown LA and LB that has seen little to no development in spite of the rail access. IMHO, the expo line will see mixed results. i think the ends of the line will see continued development, while the areas in between will lag way behind.

[saybanana]

1 and 2 are practically hugging each other. It will be positive for those two stops. More people will explore the museums and the university via Expo. I don't think there is room for any big-development for commerce or housing.

The Crenshaw station looks like there would be major potential especially when the new North-South line gets built.

[faunablues]

Ah, every time I hear about the expo line, i feel sad that the purple line never got extended to Santa Monica. As someone from West L.A. who rides public transit, I thought it would have been GREAT to have that, especially considering traffic. I'm happy that the expo line is mitigating that situation, especially since Exposition isn't very useful as a street in that region anyway, and a lot of the old rail stuff has been sitting there for years!

For the expo line, the only thing I can really say is that I think it'll benefit Culver City in terms of foot traffic for shops and such. I think that anywhere on the westside would benefit from being accessible WITHOUT having to deal with traffic, and in this case Culver City, what with their little revitalized downtown. I'm not as familiar with the other neighborhoods this runs through.

[SalParadise]

It is VERY unfortunate the purple line (Westside Subway extension) is not reality TODAY (thanks to shortsighted politicians like Henry Waxman and then city councilman Zev Yaroslavsky). The biggest public policy blunder in LA's transit planning of the last 30 years, IMO (no direct link to LAX for the Green Line is perhaps No. 2).

Given how LONG the timetable is for the Purple Line to get extended, the Expo Line is the next best alternative.

I agree Culver City will benefit from the Expo Line, as will USC.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by BRinSM

it's tough to say because areas that already have rail provide mixed results. it's certainly true that hollywood and downtown have seen huge tremendous turnarounds since the rail lines were complete. then there's the stretch of the blue line between downtown LA and LB that has seen little to no development in spite of the rail access. IMHO, the expo line will see mixed results. i think the ends of the line will see continued development, while the areas in between will lag way behind.

That is a good point. But to be blunt areas like Watts have far more stigma associated with them and are much furhter south than the neighbohroods directly south of the 10.

I am wondering if areas like Jefferson Park with a decent housing stock, are not far from downtown (or even the westside) MIGHT see some gains as a result of the Expo Line. Not sure but it is possible.

[HarryKerry]

The biggest impact will likely be for those SOUTH of the line who now take a bus north to transfer to Metro Purple or Red subway to downtown. The Expo will mean a shorter bus trip to make a transfer to rail. I don't see much change for those on WEST-EAST buses as making a transfer to a northbound bus to transfer to Expo would eat too much time and increase inconvenience. Easier for them to stay on the bus as it turns north to downtown, anyway. The Expo will enhance the commute for those in the lower economic areas south of Expo.

The Expo will also be a very big boost to USC students and employees who now must take the dingy shuttle via streets all the way to Union Station, as one example. Those apartments downtown are filled with USC students who are actually excited about taking Expo from their housing to school. While USC students supported Expo, the powers that be at USC officially opposed to the Expo line. I don't know if the old fogies at the helm of USC ever changed their position.

Ironically the one area that Expo has been touted to aide the most will, IMHO, have its residents the LEAST likely to use it: the westside. Not that the spoiled westsiders are opposed to Expo (oh, yeah, some are), it is just that Expo Phase 1 doesn't go far enough west to really be an enticing option for those beyond Culver City, and NO, not that many are gonna drive to Culver City to take the train. However, do expect Culver City and other parking lots to be all maxed out very soon after opening and Expo will be very well used, just not filled with the trendy westsiders the politicians often cite.

However, when phase 2 opens all the way to Santa Monica, look out. It is bound to be a too successful for its own good case as it was with the Blue Line. Expo will finally have an appeal to the westsiders and be packed with tourists, as Santa Monica is among the top tourist destinations. This will in no way diminish the great need for extending the subway under Wilshire to the sea as it would serve different commuters, residential, and employment areas than Expo.

While it is possible that after phase 2, the maximum 3 car LRT's may prove inadequate, even at frequent head-ways, it is also possible that Expo's slower street running (no right of way for higher speeds) for a significant portion of the line could be what some commuters find UNattractive. Unlike the speedy subway, a lot of Expo will be a leisurely trolly ride of yore compete with slower speeds in accordance with posted speed limits for cars, frequent stops for red traffic lights and a lot of waiting at those red lights that can, in some cases, add up to a LONGER commute than by car. So, it will take those commuters who are willing to give-up some time to avoid the hassle of a car commute to appreciate the lethargic pace as time to snooze or see the scenery.

But don't think those Expo trains will be empty. Seats will be hard to find during the rush hours, no doubt. Its just sad that some of our LRT lines suffer with street running. As one example: The Gold Line Eastside to Union Station is approximately 8 miles and take 20 minutes to travel, almost all of it street running except for the few miles of subway. Gold Line from Union Station to Pasadena is almost twice the distance, but covered in the same 20 minutes time because most of that journey is Right-Of-Way allowing faster speeds with no stops except for the portion in Highland Park that is street running, but that is the only portion. It would shave several minutes off if Highland Park were also ROW.

Finally, I am really skeptical of Expo and Blue line sharing that last mile to 7th Street Metro Center without negatively impacting the other. The Subway is automated and can control all the trains along the entire route to ensure efficient and frequent head-ways for both lines as they are all ROW. But Expo and Blue both have street running portions that always end up blowing a schedule, especially the tight schedule of Blue Line. There just isn't any room for being even a tad late as one train will have to wait for the other. And how is our glorious MTA going to handle the trains and platforms at 7th Metro Center? Everything is going to have to be timed to an exquisite Japanese rail line, and that just doesn't happen here in the USA. Will Expo commuters (and Blue) have a negative experience because of confusion and poor design at 7th Street and waits at Washington because they missed their window to proceed into Pico, then 7th Street. We shall see.
So, its a mixed bag.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by HarryKerry

Ironically the one area that Expo has been touted to aide the most will, IMHO, have its residents the LEAST likely to use it: the westside. Not that the spoiled westsiders are opposed to Expo (oh, yeah, some are), it is just that Expo Phase 1 doesn't go far enough west to really be an enticing option for those beyond Culver City, and NO, not that many are gonna drive to Culver City to take the train.

Some of them will move there.
CC's rep as the last middle class bastion on the westside's already endangered by it getting more and more upscale.
The Expo Line will mean it'll reach Beverly Hills/Santa Monica levels of affluence.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by HarryKerry

The Expo will also be a very big boost to USC students and employees who now must take the dingy shuttle via streets all the way to Union Station, as one example. Those apartments downtown are filled with USC students who are actually excited about taking Expo from their housing to school. While USC students supported Expo, the powers that be at USC officially opposed to the Expo line. I don't know if the old fogies at the helm of USC ever changed their position.

.

Nice, detailed & informative post Harry, as usual. USC officially OPPOSED the Expo Line? That is news to me. I recall the Blue Line was something they didn't want going by the University when it was built 20+ years ago. But not so sure they opposed the Expo line this time?

But I agree it will be a big boost overall for USC.

Originally Posted by HarryKerry

.

While it is possible that after phase 2, the maximum 3 car LRT's may prove inadequate, even at frequent head-ways, it is also possible that Expo's slower street running (no right of way for higher speeds) for a significant portion of the line could be what some commuters find UNattractive. Unlike the speedy subway, a lot of Expo will be a leisurely trolly ride of yore compete with slower speeds in accordance with posted speed limits for cars, frequent stops for red traffic lights and a lot of waiting at those red lights that can, in some cases, add up to a LONGER commute than by car. So, it will take those commuters who are willing to give-up some time to avoid the hassle of a car commute to appreciate the lethargic pace as time to snooze or see the scenery.
.

Can you explain to a transit layman why the Expo line does NOT have more Right of Way portions for greater speeds? Was this an engineering / cost issue? Or are the existing tracks laid it in a fashion where this was simply NOT possible? Quite a shame if we did this on the cheap and did not spend extra to ensure the trains move as fast as possible.

[waitressinthesky]

I've seen the rail lines in Jefferson Park/area near USC, and I have to say, it makes the area LOOK better... like more is going on. And it's another good option for the people living there... get them to Santa Monica without taking a million buses.