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god what did i start? lots of immigrant bashing. all i could say after ignoring all the hateful messages is that the current situation was created by corrupt governments who would rather make a buck than do whats right. bush is not trying to get the latino vote by toying with the idea of "amnesty", he's trying to stay in bed with farmers and the food industry and the big money that would not come his way if he didnt alllow poverty wages for guest workers or illegals. thats what all those awful trade agreements are about. whatever the cause the fact is that not all illegals are the same. and not everyone takes advantage of the system. illegals dont recieve benefits that citizens do. thats a myth. but really, go to county hospital and try to get some medical help. you will be there forever!!! and its not just illegals. lots of people like my mother who has no insurance, but is a citizen. lots of kids. plenty of black folk too. its poor people. thats really it. alot of construction workers too. get hurt on the job. most of the illegals that get hurt dont go to the hospital, unless they are severly injured. you people got some serious issues about honest hard working people. this board is a guaranteed downer. lots of bashing. i consider myself a liberal but with no tolerance for gangs or molesters, or killers. those are real criminals. not people struggling to make a living. whats a border anyway. and i cant say that i am sorry to hear that people who want to live in 1% mexican towns are leaving mexifornia. better for me. i love it here and am glad to have bigoted people leave. being mexican is not the problem nor the issue. look at the bigger picture of corrupt governments. its not mexicans. read the article and you would understand that. some people just dont get it though. pretty sad really. immigration reform is needed. lots of changes need to take place. but its like that stupid ridiculous saying of love it or leave. to many people buy into that. dont leave. fix it. this is the reality. refrom government.
While I agree with most of the posts on this topic, I have to say that the illegals do not have better health care? ...
My question is Why are they getting health care? They are illegal!! Sorry but i agree with most people on this point, they shouldnt be here unless they do it legally. Both side of my family were from differnt countries, Ireland and germany, both came here and got their legal statis, then had to begin their extremely hard lives with NO help from anyone. We coddle these people, we print everything in spanish and english? Why make it easy for them. why should they become legal citizens when we make it so easy not to be. i have heard that they can now buy homes!!! we had a hard time doing that took years!! just dont get it, maybe we should go takeover Mexico and then they will all want to go there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one
god what did i start? lots of immigrant bashing...
We arent bigots, we are tired of footing the bill and not being able to afford taking care of our own families.
Last edited by Marka; 08-08-2006 at 12:23 PM..
Reason: merged
god what did i start? lots of immigrant bashing. all i could say after ignoring all the hateful messages is that the current situation was created by corrupt governments who would rather make a buck than do whats right. bush is not trying to get the latino vote by toying with the idea of "amnesty", he's trying to stay in bed with farmers and the food industry and the big money that would not come his way if he didnt alllow poverty wages for guest workers or illegals. thats what all those awful trade agreements are about. whatever the cause the fact is that not all illegals are the same. and not everyone takes advantage of the system. illegals dont recieve benefits that citizens do. thats a myth. but really, go to county hospital and try to get some medical help. you will be there forever!!! and its not just illegals. lots of people like my mother who has no insurance, but is a citizen. lots of kids. plenty of black folk too. its poor people. thats really it. alot of construction workers too. get hurt on the job. most of the illegals that get hurt dont go to the hospital, unless they are severly injured. you people got some serious issues about honest hard working people. this board is a guaranteed downer. lots of bashing. i consider myself a liberal but with no tolerance for gangs or molesters, or killers. those are real criminals. not people struggling to make a living. whats a border anyway. and i cant say that i am sorry to hear that people who want to live in 1% mexican towns are leaving mexifornia. better for me. i love it here and am glad to have bigoted people leave. being mexican is not the problem nor the issue. look at the bigger picture of corrupt governments. its not mexicans. read the article and you would understand that. some people just dont get it though. pretty sad really. immigration reform is needed. lots of changes need to take place. but its like that stupid ridiculous saying of love it or leave. to many people buy into that. dont leave. fix it. this is the reality. refrom government.
They tried this so called "reform" in 1986 they gave amnesty but forgot one important thing -- to secure the borders to stop the influx of illegals. We're 5 years, count 'em 5 years post 911 and our borders AND sea ports are still wide open. Our emergency rooms are closing quicker than you can say amnesty, Wells Fargo and Bank of America can't get out of each others way fast enough to give illegals home loans and the car dealers are no different. Mexico needs to get their own house in order, Fox put a big flashing neon sign at the border that said "go to America for a better life" because he didn't want to deal with the horrid conditions in his own country. All he wanted there were the rich folk. What are your "rights" in Mexico or any other country for that matter, exactly you don't have any, so why should this country be any different. Last I looked American has absolutely no rights in Mexico and they sure can't buy property.
My grandfather and grandmother came legally to this country from Italy. They came through ellis island, both learned English, my grandfather learned a trade and assimilated into this country and became part of the working middle class something the current illegals especially from Mexico are not willing to do. What bothers me is to see illegals protesting in the streets of LA waiving the Mexican flag wanting their "rights" what rights?!??!?! If your not a legal citizen you have no rights. The only good thing about the great walk out of March 1st was it only took me 30 minutes to get to and from work where normally it would take me 1 hour and 30 minutes.
You mentioned that you mother has no medical benifits, children and blacks....when they walk into an emergency room do they get that much needed help??? The answer is no. But do illegals get that help....ABSOLUTELY.
A bigot? No just an American citizen that is sick and tired watching the take over of this country bit by bit and watching my HARD EARNED tax dollars going to socialist programs for non-citizens.
As for the fence they want to build on the border. I have a much better idea for that fence. Let's take that fence and build it around Washington DC so we can be sure to keep the lunatics in the asylum.
And Jeff Sessions Senator of Alabama ...well he is my hero unlike the two senators in this state who sure don't represent my views Boxer and Feinstein. They are both dead from the neck up Senator Sessions fights AND listens to what the people in his state want.
They tried this so called "reform" in 1986 they gave amnesty but forgot one important thing -- to secure the borders to stop the influx of illegals. We're 5 years, count 'em 5 years post 911 and our borders AND sea ports are still wide open. Our emergency rooms are closing quicker than you can say amnesty, Wells Fargo and Bank of America can't get out of each others way fast enough to give illegals home loans and the car dealers are no different. Mexico needs to get their own house in order, Fox put a big flashing neon sign at the border that said "go to America for a better life" because he didn't want to deal with the horrid conditions in his own country. All he wanted there were the rich folk. What are your "rights" in Mexico or any other country for that matter, exactly you don't have any, so why should this country be any different. Last I looked American has absolutely no rights in Mexico and they sure can't buy property.
My grandfather and grandmother came legally to this country from Italy. They came through ellis island, both learned English, my grandfather learned a trade and assimilated into this country and became part of the working middle class something the current illegals especially from Mexico are not willing to do. What bothers me is to see illegals protesting in the streets of LA waiving the Mexican flag wanting their "rights" what rights?!??!?! If your not a legal citizen you have no rights. The only good thing about the great walk out of March 1st was it only took me 30 minutes to get to and from work where normally it would take me 1 hour and 30 minutes.
You mentioned that you mother has no medical benifits, children and blacks....when they walk into an emergency room do they get that much needed help??? The answer is no. But do illegals get that help....ABSOLUTELY.
A bigot? No just an American citizen that is sick and tired watching the take over of this country bit by bit and watching my HARD EARNED tax dollars going to socialist programs for non-citizens.
As for the fence they want to build on the border. I have a much better idea for that fence. Let's take that fence and build it around Washington DC so we can be sure to keep the lunatics in the asylum.
And Jeff Sessions Senator of Alabama ...well he is my hero unlike the two senators in this state who sure don't represent my views Boxer and Feinstein. They are both dead from the neck up Senator Sessions fights AND listens to what the people in his state want.
AMEN! I am moving to AZ so I know we will deal with it there, we had them Oregon too, tons, sucking the system dry. Wow yourfamily is from Italy, i have always wanted to go there, cant get enough PASTA!!! Sorry but irish food is gross!Thats what i dealt with. German not too bad, great beer.
comparing immigration from your grandparents era to now is ridiculous. back then, when immigrants where a larger percentage of the population than now all you had to do was show up at ellis island. what kind of steps do you think they took? none. they just came on a boat, maybe changed their names and were given citizenship. there were bad feelings toward european immigrants. nobody wanted the irish, then nobody wanted the italians. then nobody wanted the polish. but the bad feelings never turned into legislation like they did against non european immigrants. from the chinese exculsion act to the mass depotment of legal mexicans from souther california in the 30 and 40's till now. but thats not bigoted or racist right? let any italian or irish come show up on the east coast. but when you have some mexicans dont let them. and you cant argue that they are the ones draining the economy. like i said in terms of percentages there were many more immigrants in your parents and grand parents time. the ones easiest to deport were the scape gaots. the mexicans were blamed for the depression, thus the mass deportments in the southwest. but all this is old news. ridiculous generalizations are made about mexican immigrants not wanting to become part of the larger society. well tell me what does that look like? englsih speaking? guess what im typing in english right now so i guees that means i speak english. as does my mother. as does my aunt. does acculturation mean education? guess what i got that also. hpme ownership in a nice part of town? guess what that too!!! neighborhood watch? check! voting? that too. and my neighbors are very much like me. immigrant or immigrant by extension and fully a part of this new world that includes arabs and latinos and US(not american, since america is larger than the USA) born citizens. its a great salad bowl where tomatoes sit next to lettuce, next to artichokes and live side by side. bigots prefer to live in homogenous, bland environments where they get to complain and complain and complain. i just live my life and respect anyone whos erasn an honest living. you people need to go after the drug dealers. the hazardous waste dumping companies. the molestors. the real bad guys. but im sure that maybe 80 to a hundred years ago you would of had the same complaints about the irish or the italians or any other immigrant that you have about the "mexicans". this is too funny. oh and i have no problem sealing the borders. im all for it. but we do need a better immigration system. if your grand parents were able to over run this country why shouldnt other people also? or do they have to be european.
My grandparents didnt come over in the 1800's well one set did, the Irish ones, and they were spit upon and forced to live in squaller and suffer from extreme poverty and and were beaten, but never relied on the government for any assistance, never flew an irish flag in protest of the way they were treated.
My other grandparents came over in 1941 and were not given immediate citizenship, and again never asked for assistance and came with nothing. If you want to keep paying for all the freebies the illegals get fine, oh and my grandparents also learned the english language and spoke only it while in public, I really dont know why you have a problem with us wanting them to go through the legalization process, and sorry my grandparents didnt over run this country, other wise entire cities would be know as Little ireland or Little germany, unlike AZ and Cali and Texas and so many others called little mexico.
the one, you indeed did this forum a favor with this topic, and please note the difference: people are praising legal immigrants, and "bashing" illegal ones. There's in fact a huge difference. The former were the backbone of building this country, the latter are exploitative opportunists expecting us, the extant citizens and naturalized citizens, to pay their way.
Because I think your contribution to this forum is important, the one, as you represent the future of L.A., the literate, computer-savvy person of Mexican descent, I hope you bear with my post to you explaining that difference. Every person coming to America through Ellis Island was legal. The immigrants had to have some affidavit claiming someone already in America would be accountable for them (usually family already here.) They were then tested for communicable diseases. If either were out of sorts, they were not allowed in.
These legal immigrants, whether through Ellis Island, or, say, Asian laborers invited here to work on the railroads in the West, all learned English and were not beholden to government programs funded by us citizens. (And I'm eternally grateful for that Asian migration: the extant population here, with their emphasis on education, provided the eventual workforce that fueled the computer revolution.)
On this fine forum, we are all able to converse online in English and understand Amercan cultural aspects. We are not segregated by Italian, Norwegian, Kikuyu, Mandarin, Greek, Farsi, Tagalog, Portuguese or whatever language of our familes' forbears: we are Americans communicating in a common tongue. Since we all are in fact from so many diverse places, it becomes even more essential that we have this common ground rather than divisive tribal factions. This is why Americans embrace the idea of learning the foreign language of their own choosing as a business asset or personal accomplishment, and bridle at the thought of a foreign language not of their choosing being shoved down their throats. I personally would choose to learn more French, with Japanese and Swahili if I could. My brother-in-law's kids learned Danish from their mother in order to communicate with their grandparents. No one in that household is demanding that every sign here in America be replaced with one in Danish as well as English, or, God forbid with the analogy of my poor neighborhood changing all signs into Spanish only, every sign being replaced with one in Danish only.
And yes, the illegals do get medical services we citizens do not get. I accompanied a friend with cancer to county hospital. She was a born here citizen, 40 years of paying taxes. Because her cancer was unfortunately gynocological, she was relegated to always being secondary to 100s of illegal moms 8 and 1/2 months pregnant, here to have their kid (and 9 more?). Her appointments were 4 months apart because of the numbers of women, and after the much delayed operation, she ended up with lifelong problems that would never have existed had she had timely care.
And more recently, a cancerous friend confirmed that her county hospital bills totaled $30,000, while the illegals with the same operations were only expected to contribute $300 apiece.
The mom with 10 kids who defiantly demands welfare hurts everyone. And that salad bowl analogy is propaganda by Balkanizers. Don't you want your neighbors from the Middle East, Ukraine or Togoland to consider themselves Americans, proud to be here with other Americans? This country's motto is, after all, E pluribus unum: out of many, one. Not vice versa.
I tried to give you some rep points and rate your last two posts positively, but the system wouldn't let me. Thank you for your reasoned defense of immigrants who are just desperate to feed their kids. Thank you for pointing out that the employers who would rather underpay and underinsure their workers are one of the major sources of the problem. If we had to pay the actual price that crops would cost if workers were paid minimum wage and benefits, we'd be whining about that, too.
(I'm an immigrant from the UK, but I learned to speak Spanish because being bilingual is an asset and lets you learn from your neighbors.)
While illegal immigrants do put a strain on the economy, the flip side is that because they are being paid minimum wage or less and are underinsured, WE pay less for goods and services. As I stated in my earlier post, the problem is threefold - small to mid sized businesses; Americans hiring illegal immigrants to work in their homes; and corrupt government policies/practices. We can't simply blame all the illegal mexican immigrants. There are other illegal immigrants too. They come over here and committ crimes and sell drugs and start gangs - they just don't use the social programs so it's harder to track their abuse of this country.
BTW - I have no problem with them getting health care (although they should never come before cancer patients or be required to pay less for services). If they are cooking food in public restuarants, working with other people, then I want them immunized and healthy...otherwise we'll have other issues to deal with. I don't even want to think about what communicable diseases could be spread if they did not have access to healthcare. Sorry, but I feel the health of all people is important. It's really sad that many Americans don't have access to it.
We are part of the problem too. No I'm not a communist or a socialist, I like capitalism, I love being an American; but I refuse to point the finger at any one group and blame them for all of our problems in America. We had Al-Quieda (sp?) LEGAL immigrants and native born in this country and look what happened -- 9/11? Pilots trained on our soil. Now I don't believe all Middle Eastern immigrants or native born should be singled out?
The answer is not amnesty. It is not sealing our borders. It's changing our policies on immigration. Don't give them a financially rewarding reason to leave their country, penalize businesses and individuals who support illegal immigration by supplying them with jobs, thus income. Set up a healthcare plan that does not tap into our Medicare. One where they have to pay for the services themselves outside of a medical emergency. Charge them for attending public schools. Why not? They're not here legally anyway. If they had to pay for the services they so readily receive for free, then they would soon discover that America isn't that great of a promise land afterall.
thanks i think im the only one here that has consistently had a negative or 0 rating. makes me laugh really. how do people get repuation points anyways? because seriously some of the things some people say deserve to get an unhappy face.
but FF it does suck about your friend. my mom goes to a clinic in LB to avoid all the crowds in east los or county and her appointments are 3 to 4 months apart. but the issue with those places is really the lack of nurses and medical personnel. people always complained about the care at king drew. how all they did was kill people. killer king this. killer king that. the real problem was that due to a nurse strike most county nurses were continously being rotated among the county hospitals. what did this amount to? a bunch of nurses who were always new and never really new how to correctly monitor all the machines hooked up to the patients. the medical system is really jacked up. while a bunch of immigrants getting hurt does not help the situation it is not the the only problem.
i work in social research and have done research on undocumented workers and i will say this again. they only go to the hospital if they are seriously injured. and in that case i think it is completely fine to treat any human being on the end of a nail gun barrage. thats just humane. the problem is at the borders. seal the borders. dont make cops into border patrol. or teachers or doctors. stuff is way messed up as it is. and i do understand the difference between the "good" and "bad" immigrant" my problem is with a process that takes years.
an immigrant always has to have a sponsor. just like the old ellis island people. but honestly. my father has been trying to fix my uncles papers since 1997!!! thats a pretty long time. most immigrants do know legal citizens here. if all they had to do was stick to the ellis island rules there would be even more people here. wonder why that changed?. but the process is just too long. thats why it needs to be reformed. immigrants are not the problem people.
war machines are. corrupt goverments and back scratching politicians. how quick did our economy turn once the war started? and we have always had immigrants. since the beggining till the end. immigrants all around. one other thing. i was at the march in march. for every salvi, korean or mex flag i saw, there were two US ones. people here are proud of this country as well as where they came from. you should see how many USMC bumper stickers i see in my neighborhood. these immigrants are happy to offer thier kids to the service. which brings another idea to mind..what about creating a military fast track to legaliszation? any how its this idea of forging a new image of what this land really is. a land for all.
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the one
